Chatting with Athene

do you think that narcissists believe that and I'm I don't I don't know if that and I'm I don't I don't know if you're a narcissist or not so this isn't you're a narcissist or not so this isn't some kind of veiled attack I'm genuinely some kind of veiled attack I'm genuinely curious because I have a follow-up curious because I have a follow-up question do you think that narcissists question do you think that narcissists believe that they are that they have believe that they are that they have that they're objectively better in some that they're objectively better in some ways than other people hey man how are you can you can you hear me yeah thank you for being so patient me yeah thank you for being so patient I'm sorry about the guys it's fine if I'm sorry about the guys it's fine if you can have people I don't mind yeah you can have people I don't mind yeah also what I want to say do you hear echo also what I want to say do you hear echo when you're talking I I don't hear echo when you're talking I I don't hear echo okay that's good that's good that's good okay that's good that's good that's good awesome okay and and just volume wise awesome okay and and just volume wise what we're doing okay yeah yeah I'm what we're doing okay yeah yeah I'm hearing you clear clear okay let me just hearing you clear clear okay let me just um all right so I think can you tell me um all right so I think can you tell me a little bit about what so I'm not quite

a little bit about what so I'm not quite sure exactly how this got set up but sure exactly how this got set up but there were people in in my chat who there were people in in my chat who wanted me to talk to you yeah cuz I have wanted me to talk to you yeah cuz I have quite a controversial reputation on the quite a controversial reputation on the internet and people love to see drama internet and people love to see drama so they'd love to see you know like I so they'd love to see you know like I talk a lot about you know being talk a lot about you know being responsible and stuff on the live stream responsible and stuff on the live stream and I've you even run my own place and and I've you even run my own place and such and I can say things that sometimes such and I can say things that sometimes are very confrontational and I got are very confrontational and I got myself a little bit of a cult guru myself a little bit of a cult guru reputation and that's why they they like reputation and that's why they they like the idea of you know me talking to you the idea of you know me talking to you because some for for the drama sake some because some for for the drama sake some to see if there's something interest to see if there's something interest interesting that comes out of it interesting that comes out of it everybody has their a little bit their everybody has their a little bit their own motivation what are you like to get own motivation what are you like to get out of it like for me the the reason why out of it like for me the the reason why I think it's a I didn't mind having a I think it's a I didn't mind having a chat because I can potentially learn

chat because I can potentially learn from you and you can potentially learn from you and you can potentially learn from me and if our intent is to help out from me and if our intent is to help out other people this conversation could other people this conversation could prove to be very fruitful that's one one prove to be very fruitful that's one one aspect of it the other aspect is also aspect of it the other aspect is also that even if that is not what it leads that even if that is not what it leads to people will get a better idea new to people will get a better idea new about you know how I think and how I see about you know how I think and how I see things and how you think and how you see things and how you think and how you see things and either way uh I I do think things and either way uh I I do think that the outcome will be positive either that the outcome will be positive either way so sure my goal way so sure my goal with this talk is not to to country with this talk is not to to country create controversy or drama I I checked create controversy or drama I I checked a bit a few of your streams and well a bit a few of your streams and well like I just skipped through it and I I like I just skipped through it and I I checked I saw your Dharma approach like checked I saw your Dharma approach like the the Dharma AoE and I looked a bit the the Dharma AoE and I looked a bit into it and like being responsible and

into it and like being responsible and quite action-oriented I I really like quite action-oriented I I really like that sure it's it's the it's the you that sure it's it's the it's the you know it's the direction I steer people know it's the direction I steer people into as well so you're like why are you into as well so you're like why are you doing all of this why am i why do i doing all of this why am i why do i stream why do you you know yeah why do stream why do you you know yeah why do you stream why do you because I also you stream why do you because I also know you have a website healthy gamers know you have a website healthy gamers yeah like what what is the yeah what is yeah like what what is the yeah what is it for you what is your intent what is it for you what is your intent what is your true motivation for what you're your true motivation for what you're doing so my motivation is Dharma so I doing so my motivation is Dharma so I believe that doing this is my duty or believe that doing this is my duty or responsibility and what I mean by that responsibility and what I mean by that in a much more so that sounds like kind in a much more so that sounds like kind of fancy but I think in a simple sense of fancy but I think in a simple sense I've had a very unique a couple of very I've had a very unique a couple of very unique opportunities in my life so I was unique opportunities in my life so I was addicted to video games slash almost addicted to video games slash almost failed out of college from playing too failed out of college from playing too many video games and then studied for

many video games and then studied for several years to become a monk and then several years to become a monk and then ended up becoming a psychiatrist and in ended up becoming a psychiatrist and in in the process of training to become a in the process of training to become a psychiatrist I started asking a lot of psychiatrist I started asking a lot of my professors and supervisors about my professors and supervisors about video game addiction and then really no video game addiction and then really no one knew anything because it's a one knew anything because it's a relatively new phenomenon I think relatively new phenomenon I think technology and social media and the way technology and social media and the way that they affect minds and brains is that they affect minds and brains is like people just don't understand that like people just don't understand that it's a really no one knew much about it it's a really no one knew much about it so about five years ago I just started so about five years ago I just started asking gamers like you know why do you asking gamers like you know why do you play video games do you want to play play video games do you want to play fewer video games and why can't you stop fewer video games and why can't you stop and the more that I've worked with and the more that I've worked with gamers so I you know sort of started gamers so I you know sort of started streaming actually only three months ago streaming actually only three months ago and having worked with people for about and having worked with people for about five years now I realized that like five years now I realized that like a lot of people have the same problems a lot of people have the same problems so that I was essentially having the so that I was essentially having the same conversations with like dozens or same conversations with like dozens or hundreds of people and realized that

hundreds of people and realized that basically we need to AoE this stuff basically we need to AoE this stuff right so instead of having and that I right so instead of having and that I could I couldn't get to everyone so could I couldn't get to everyone so about one year ago a little over a year about one year ago a little over a year ago I posted an an AMA threat on Reddit ago I posted an an AMA threat on Reddit and just said I'm a psychiatrist who's and just said I'm a psychiatrist who's interested in video game addiction and interested in video game addiction and got thousands of messages people were got thousands of messages people were like paging me at the hospital and stuff like paging me at the hospital and stuff like that like that I got calls from all over the world I got calls from all over the world actually for parents and people who were actually for parents and people who were struggling it didn't didn't know how to struggling it didn't didn't know how to get help and so I realized that like I get help and so I realized that like I can't you know I can be a psychiatrist can't you know I can be a psychiatrist and work in my office and see 40 and work in my office and see 40 patients a week and I will never it'll patients a week and I will never it'll never be enough and so I need to change never be enough and so I need to change so if I get it right you you actually so if I get it right you you actually want to help people in in the most want to help people in in the most effective manner you can what do you effective manner you can what do you mean by elective like to give a mean by elective like to give a comparison rather than having 40 comparison rather than having 40 patients patients you'd rather like reach thousands if

you'd rather like reach thousands if yeah because because no one else is yeah because because no one else is right so if someone else is doing it right so if someone else is doing it then that's fine but right now like the then that's fine but right now like the overwhelming message that I get is that overwhelming message that I get is that gamers who go and see a psychiatrist get gamers who go and see a psychiatrist get diagnosed with depression get started on diagnosed with depression get started on medication and then six months later medication and then six months later their life is exactly the same and and their life is exactly the same and and why why why do you what why is it why why why do you what why is it something that you know because I'm just something that you know because I'm just trying to to understand the motive and trying to to understand the motive and the drive and such right like why do you the drive and such right like why do you want to reach many instead of just 40 want to reach many instead of just 40 because many reach out to me is it because many reach out to me is it because of the reach out to something so because of the reach out to something so like so that's good so the reason I like so that's good so the reason I asked about effectiveness is because I asked about effectiveness is because I see a big difference between public see a big difference between public health and clinical medicine so there health and clinical medicine so there are some interventions that we do that are some interventions that we do that effect of population but don't affect effect of population but don't affect the population as profoundly as an the population as profoundly as an individual so what I enjoy doing the individual so what I enjoy doing the most is working with individuals I

most is working with individuals I actually think that's the most effective actually think that's the most effective that in order for me to help someone if that in order for me to help someone if I get one hour a week with them for like I get one hour a week with them for like six months that person is like different six months that person is like different at the end of that and one of the at the end of that and one of the struggles that I have with doing this is struggles that I have with doing this is that I meet with people once and we sort that I meet with people once and we sort of really try to make things like super of really try to make things like super cross-sectional and I are trying to help cross-sectional and I are trying to help them out a little bit but I don't know them out a little bit but I don't know if this is actually helping people what if this is actually helping people what you're doing right now yeah by talking you're doing right now yeah by talking to all these people on the UM on line I to all these people on the UM on line I mean people say it's helping right so mean people say it's helping right so the last interview the last survey see the last interview the last survey see who is helping this part of the equation who is helping this part of the equation you you really want to help people yeah you you really want to help people yeah and you want you want to be able to help and you want you want to be able to help as much as you can yeah why because I as much as you can yeah why because I can so let me put it to you this way so can so let me put it to you this way so I think Dharma is so Dharma is related

I think Dharma is so Dharma is related to karma so karma is sort of like the to karma so karma is sort of like the idea of like circumstance right so like idea of like circumstance right so like this so I think that I've been given a this so I think that I've been given a relatively unique background and so that relatively unique background and so that comes with a certain obligation so let comes with a certain obligation so let me put it to you this way me put it to you this way let's say that the two of us are sitting let's say that the two of us are sitting at a park bench and I have two at a park bench and I have two sandwiches and you have none and both of sandwiches and you have none and both of us are hungry I believe that I should us are hungry I believe that I should give you a sandwich just because I have give you a sandwich just because I have two and you have none that there's just two and you have none that there's just sort of a karmic setup there that like sort of a karmic setup there that like if I'm able to do something like who if I'm able to do something like who else is gonna do it because the really else is gonna do it because the really scary scary yeah can I give it can I give another yeah can I give it can I give another example sure because I like the example sure because I like the apartment let's say you're on the park apartment let's say you're on the park bench and you have two sandwiches right bench and you have two sandwiches right and the person next to you didn't eat and the person next to you didn't eat all day right and the person on the all day right and the person on the other side of the the park hasn't eaten other side of the the park hasn't eaten for a week

for a week or a month would you give the sandwich or a month would you give the sandwich to to I don't understand how that analogy I don't understand how that analogy relates to our situation here well like relates to our situation here well like for me because when the when the core is for me because when the when the core is helping people you try to help people helping people you try to help people where the needs is the biggest and I'm where the needs is the biggest and I'm just trying to use your support I think just trying to use your support I think I should be doing instead I should be doing instead well I just want to understand the true well I just want to understand the true intent and motivation of why you're intent and motivation of why you're helping people because that would give helping people because that would give the answer to whether it even what what the answer to whether it even what what whether it's even relevant if something whether it's even relevant if something else would be better because what would else would be better because what would have what I've realized and and have what I've realized and and experienced myself in my life is a lot experienced myself in my life is a lot of the time when people are doing good of the time when people are doing good it's within their comfort and when it it's within their comfort and when it when it requires them to go outside when it requires them to go outside their comfort they start rationalizing their comfort they start rationalizing why they shouldn't be doing this so they

why they shouldn't be doing this so they shouldn't be doing that and and then shouldn't be doing that and and then even mentioning what they could be doing even mentioning what they could be doing better just causes conflict and has very better just causes conflict and has very little purpose like for me my goal is little purpose like for me my goal is not to pinpoint the inconsistencies my not to pinpoint the inconsistencies my what I just try to understand is what what I just try to understand is what the intent is because if the intent is the intent is because if the intent is really pure and and really like yeah I really pure and and really like yeah I want to help people where the need is want to help people where the need is the biggest and and I am very you know the biggest and and I am very you know almost about it towards myself and I almost about it towards myself and I would even go out of my comfort zone would even go out of my comfort zone because like for example the two because like for example the two sandwiches if you're really hungry you sandwiches if you're really hungry you could eat them both you go out of your could eat them both you go out of your comfort zone giving a sandwich to the comfort zone giving a sandwich to the person next to you but how far would you person next to you but how far would you go would you would you give it to two go would you would you give it to two starving people next to you and not eat starving people next to you and not eat the sandwich help me understand why it the sandwich help me understand why it is it is help me understand why you want is it is help me understand why you want to understand my motivations and to understand my motivations and specifically it sounds like you're specifically it sounds like you're trying to figure out do I fall into the trying to figure out do I fall into the camp of helping people within my comfort camp of helping people within my comfort zone or helping people outside of my

zone or helping people outside of my comfort zone that seems to be what comfort zone that seems to be what you're asking about or to which extent you're asking about or to which extent would you go out of your comfort zone in would you go out of your comfort zone in order to to basically follow the the order to to basically follow the the Dharma ideology yeah so yeah why do you Dharma ideology yeah so yeah why do you think you're so you're curious about think you're so you're curious about that right you're curious about me that right you're curious about me and to what degree I will step outside and to what degree I will step outside of my comfort zone to help people well of my comfort zone to help people well yeah like it would be it's it's very yeah like it would be it's it's very interesting to know yet to know these interesting to know yet to know these things because what I yeah yeah so things because what I yeah yeah so people people are curious about all people people are curious about all kinds of things right like some people kinds of things right like some people are curious about what kind of product I are curious about what kind of product I put in my hair put in my hair some people are curious about yeah but I some people are curious about yeah but I mean I'm curious about this is because mean I'm curious about this is because it's very functional it's like if you can find common what I mean like what what I mean with that is mean like what what I mean with that is if you can find a common shared if you can find a common shared foundation then you can potentially get

foundation then you can potentially get a lot more of the relationship than just a lot more of the relationship than just this talk for example like if you share this talk for example like if you share you're looking for commonality between you're looking for commonality between me and you because now I can play now thank you I completely agree with because I think completely agree with because I think that's what you're looking for too that's what you're looking for too so I that's a new line more than so I that's a new line more than commonality with you and me I would say commonality with you and me I would say commonality with are you comparing us commonality with are you comparing us no like that's that's exactly what I'm no like that's that's exactly what I'm trying to get to for me it's not about trying to get to for me it's not about comparing to what I do because that's comparing to what I do because that's that's not so relevant to me it's about that's not so relevant to me it's about understanding your connection to giving understanding your connection to giving back to the world basically and how back to the world basically and how strong that is and so is it how you strong that is and so is it how you isn't that like the central part of I isn't that like the central part of I mean just based on what you've said so mean just based on what you've said so far I guess that that is a very central far I guess that that is a very central part of who you are part of who you are is that you are someone who gives back is that you are someone who gives back to the world and I mean I don't really to the world and I mean I don't really know much but that I would guess that know much but that I would guess that you step outside of comfort zones that

you step outside of comfort zones that many other people would not well the many other people would not well the thing is like for me rather than saying thing is like for me rather than saying this is how I am or whatever like I this is how I am or whatever like I don't really have an identity about it I don't really have an identity about it I just got to do what I got to do it's just got to do what I got to do it's like water that flows down a mountain like water that flows down a mountain why does it flow down a mountain it's why does it flow down a mountain it's just because it follows the path of what just because it follows the path of what it is and and I think if you come to a it is and and I think if you come to a certain awareness of us what is so let certain awareness of us what is so let me ask you what is the how does the me ask you what is the how does the water flow down the mountain in terms of water flow down the mountain in terms of this example of like me sitting with a this example of like me sitting with a guy next to me and then a guy across the guy next to me and then a guy across the park who hasn't eaten for a week where park who hasn't eaten for a week where has water flow there well the the thing has water flow there well the the thing is like if you if you grow up right and is like if you if you grow up right and depending on how you've been conditioned depending on how you've been conditioned and such you are you are very wired to and such you are you are very wired to follow how you feel yeah follow how you feel yeah rather and do what feels right rather rather and do what feels right rather than what is right Dan so but but and than what is right Dan so but but and then your water will flow differently

then your water will flow differently then if you go about it in a more then if you go about it in a more analytical manner where you just see the analytical manner where you just see the impact for what it is and base your impact for what it is and base your actions on that even if it doesn't actions on that even if it doesn't always feel as as as as good and that's always feel as as as as good and that's the thing that's how you achieve very the thing that's how you achieve very big impact by by by playing the number big impact by by by playing the number became more so than playing the the became more so than playing the the empathy game and that's why okay so help empathy game and that's why okay so help me understand something a theme so you me understand something a theme so you were saying earlier that you don't were saying earlier that you don't really think about this stuff as your really think about this stuff as your identity you don't really think about identity you don't really think about whether you step out of your comfort whether you step out of your comfort zone that you are essentially like like zone that you are essentially like like you have water that flows downhill and you have water that flows downhill and so you have some sort of intrinsic so you have some sort of intrinsic arrived to do something and you kind of arrived to do something and you kind of don't question it you just do it it's don't question it you just do it it's not you it's just a natural process well not you it's just a natural process well let me let me bounce back the question let me let me bounce back the question do I have a drive to breed yes okay so like there is an actual active

okay so like there is an actual active process in my brain going on where I say process in my brain going on where I say and mind myself to breathe and mind myself to breathe yes maybe we're maybe we're yes maybe we're maybe we're miscommunicating well no so yeah you miscommunicating well no so yeah you absolutely have parts of your brain that absolutely have parts of your brain that measure your co2 levels and Oh two measure your co2 levels and Oh two levels you know that's not it's not part levels you know that's not it's not part of my awareness it's it's not part of my of my awareness it's it's not part of my active awareness it's not like but let active awareness it's not like but let me give another example do do do I have me give another example do do do I have the drive for my blood cells to - you the drive for my blood cells to - you know heimeau go hemoglobin to absorb know heimeau go hemoglobin to absorb oxygen from the air and distribute it to oxygen from the air and distribute it to my organs do I have a drive to do that my organs do I have a drive to do that no no well just by drive you buy drive no no well just by drive you buy drive you're defining that is like an you're defining that is like an awareness or a motivation to consciously awareness or a motivation to consciously do that do that why do you drive so yeah that that's why do you drive so yeah that that's what what I'm trying to get to is trying what what I'm trying to get to is trying to figure out a common ground because to to figure out a common ground because to make sure we understand the same make sure we understand the same language so for me like it's more a

language so for me like it's more a state of being rather than a drive it's state of being rather than a drive it's like I just wake up and I do what I like I just wake up and I do what I gotta do and and that's as simple as it gotta do and and that's as simple as it is there is you know so that's on one is there is you know so that's on one end of the spectrum and being analytical end of the spectrum and being analytical is on the other end of the spectrum well is on the other end of the spectrum well but the thing is though like being but the thing is though like being analytical is part of just doing what I analytical is part of just doing what I got to do because it's like you know a got to do because it's like you know a computer that that processes you know a computer that that processes you know a lot of data it's also just doing what it lot of data it's also just doing what it has to do and it's analyzing numbers has to do and it's analyzing numbers like crazy as well like like I just want like crazy as well like like I just want to make sure that you understand what to make sure that you understand what what I mean like it's just a state ID what I mean like it's just a state ID yeah I don't understand what what you yeah I don't understand what what you mean I think but that's what I'm trying mean I think but that's what I'm trying to explain it to explain it that's why I explain it like I think it that's why I explain it like I think it would be helpful so generally speaking would be helpful so generally speaking in my experience so you let me know if in my experience so you let me know if your experience is different yeah when your experience is different yeah when I'm communicating with someone who I'm communicating with someone who doesn't understand what I mean and they doesn't understand what I mean and they ask a question I find that instead of

ask a question I find that instead of giving them an explanation or asking giving them an explanation or asking them a completely separate question I them a completely separate question I find that like if someone asks me a find that like if someone asks me a question if I'm if my goal is question if I'm if my goal is understanding I just answer it right if understanding I just answer it right if someone asks me like oh look what are someone asks me like oh look what are you put in your hair instead of talking you put in your hair instead of talking about hemoglobin or red blood cells or about hemoglobin or red blood cells or using an analogy I just answer the using an analogy I just answer the question that they ask so like in question that they ask so like in communication what is what is crucial is communication what is what is crucial is for the other person to understand what for the other person to understand what you mean because else you're just you mean because else you're just explaining something based on your own explaining something based on your own experience and how you grew up and maybe experience and how you grew up and maybe the person won't even understand what the person won't even understand what you're trying to explain so that's why you're trying to explain so that's why for me it's very important to define for me it's very important to define certain concepts in a way that you certain concepts in a way that you understand them the way I'm trying to understand them the way I'm trying to explain them because maybe I'm using explain them because maybe I'm using words in a different way than you are or words in a different way than you are or have a different meaning in a result we have a different meaning in a result we wish are so so I I completely agree that wish are so so I I completely agree that sometimes there's confusion about sometimes there's confusion about terminology and that it's important to terminology and that it's important to like iron out those details but what

like iron out those details but what I'm really curious about us sometimes I I'm really curious about us sometimes I ask you a question and instead of just ask you a question and instead of just answering the question and then us going answering the question and then us going from there because maybe I understand from there because maybe I understand what you mean maybe I don't so usually what you mean maybe I don't so usually when someone answers a question what I when someone answers a question what I try to do is repeat back what I try to do is repeat back what I understood and then give them a chance understood and then give them a chance to clarify but what I'm noticing that to clarify but what I'm noticing that you're doing is when I ask a question you're doing is when I ask a question you sort of ask me a question or talk you sort of ask me a question or talk about some sort of analogy like do you about some sort of analogy like do you see how that's the pattern of our see how that's the pattern of our communication it's because I I go within communication it's because I I go within the concepts you use if you talk about the concepts you use if you talk about drive I dive deeper into the word and drive I dive deeper into the word and what it actually means to me which gives what it actually means to me which gives it a much a much more accurate answer it a much a much more accurate answer than one where I would just answer more than one where I would just answer more superficially in a way that you know superficially in a way that you know that that's so accurate for who jaime that that's so accurate for who jaime accra so when you give additional accra so when you give additional information well it gives it who does

information well it gives it who does that who does that make things more that who does that make things more accurate for yourself or for me well it accurate for yourself or for me well it would give you a better understanding in would give you a better understanding in what I mean with Drive and how it what I mean with Drive and how it relates to but I think why don't you relates to but I think why don't you rely on me to ask the questions about rely on me to ask the questions about the things that I don't understand the things that I don't understand instead of presuming what I do or don't instead of presuming what I do or don't understand and that's like telling me understand and that's like telling me random stuff huh because you might jump random stuff huh because you might jump to conclusions based on the answers I to conclusions based on the answers I give absolutely man absolutely I give absolutely man absolutely I completely agree with you so when I jump completely agree with you so when I jump to a conclusion I think it would be to a conclusion I think it would be awesome if you point that out to me yes awesome if you point that out to me yes and that's what I'm and what I think and that's what I'm and what I think would also be awesome is if I ask you a would also be awesome is if I ask you a question if instead of like talking question if instead of like talking about some sort of foundational analogy about some sort of foundational analogy you answer the question and then you see you answer the question and then you see if I jump to a conclusion like if I ask

if I jump to a conclusion like if I ask you is 2+2 4 and then your answer is you is 2+2 4 and then your answer is like well let's start talking about like well let's start talking about mathematics and then you start talking mathematics and then you start talking about mathematics to make sure we're all about mathematics to make sure we're all on the same page but if I ask you is 2+2 on the same page but if I ask you is 2+2 4 and then you say yes and then I'm like 4 and then you say yes and then I'm like ok great we all agree that 2+2 is 4 we ok great we all agree that 2+2 is 4 we don't don't have to go into the background but even have to go into the background but even there when you say is 2+2 4 even though there when you say is 2+2 4 even though that is you know accurate in within that is you know accurate in within uncertain framework uncertain framework you could argue in certain frameworks you could argue in certain frameworks 2+2 is not equal for sure you could 2+2 is not equal for sure you could argue anything with anyone I know which argue anything with anyone I know which is what we're doing apparently that is is what we're doing apparently that is but that is why what I always try to do but that is why what I always try to do is to avoid ok so I think are you is to avoid ok so I think are you willing to answer questions in a way willing to answer questions in a way that may I may find helpful or do you that may I may find helpful or do you want to answer questions in the way that want to answer questions in the way that you think will best help me understand you think will best help me understand like are we going to rely on my judgment like are we going to rely on my judgment to help me like like if I ask you a to help me like like if I ask you a question about your preferences or your question about your preferences or your beliefs do you think it like it's really beliefs do you think it like it's really important for you to lay that foundation important for you to lay that foundation or is it possible for you to just answer

or is it possible for you to just answer a question and then correct me if I'm a question and then correct me if I'm wrong that that's the thing if you if wrong that that's the thing if you if you get to understand like how I see you get to understand like how I see things things then a lot of these questions become then a lot of these questions become irrelevant like for example believes if irrelevant like for example believes if you ask me what do you believe in like you ask me what do you believe in like it's it's very irrelevant to me because it's it's very irrelevant to me because to me I just look at reality and that's to me I just look at reality and that's it and things are the way they are and I it and things are the way they are and I accept them my beliefs and even my accept them my beliefs and even my feelings are merely tools for life to to feelings are merely tools for life to to to to thrive and to align with reality to to thrive and to align with reality nothing more nothing less nothing more nothing less so I don't have an attachment to it if so I don't have an attachment to it if if I believe a certain thing it's merely if I believe a certain thing it's merely a tool to to to to be more aligned but a tool to to to to be more aligned but if tomorrow I get confronted otherwise I if tomorrow I get confronted otherwise I change that belief change that belief it's very moldable it's adaptable and it's very moldable it's adaptable and that's the thing like when when when that's the thing like when when when when certain value is being given on when certain value is being given on certain concepts I bring up people and certain concepts I bring up people and maybe also perhaps you might get the maybe also perhaps you might get the wrong idea wrong idea and that's why I'm trying to explain and that's why I'm trying to explain like yeah I just I just do what I got to

like yeah I just I just do what I got to do and here's what I'm here's what I'm do and here's what I'm here's what I'm hearing from you a theme you're very hearing from you a theme you're very concerned about people getting the wrong concerned about people getting the wrong idea and it's very important for you idea and it's very important for you that they appropriately understand you you know I don't find it important like but that is acceptances stop stop for a but that is acceptances stop stop for a second this whole conversation is about second this whole conversation is about me asking you a question and then you me asking you a question and then you taking a painstaking taking a painstaking and deliberate approach to making sure and deliberate approach to making sure that I don't jump to conclusions correct that I don't jump to conclusions correct like that's exactly what you've been like that's exactly what you've been saying more so easy for you to saying more so easy for you to understand what I ABS so then I just understand what I ABS so then I just asked you a question it seems very asked you a question it seems very important that you are not misunderstood important that you are not misunderstood that other people understand what you're that other people understand what you're trying to say and don't misrepresent trying to say and don't misrepresent your beliefs that is what I'm asking if your beliefs that is what I'm asking if I value if you if you value I value if you if you value understanding Mead and I deem to show understanding Mead and I deem to show the respect to explain things the way I the respect to explain things the way I would explain it to myself so if if I

would explain it to myself so if if I was use not a yes I'm confused was use not a yes I'm confused so it's my impression that you were it's so it's my impression that you were it's very important to you that I understand very important to you that I understand things and I don't jump to conclusions things and I don't jump to conclusions and that you want to explain things to and that you want to explain things to me in a way where like I understand your me in a way where like I understand your foundation I understand your logic I foundation I understand your logic I understand where you start from I understand where you start from I understand your foundational beliefs so understand your foundational beliefs so that I can understand what you're saying that I can understand what you're saying that's what you're trying to do right that's what you're trying to do right like I ask you a question instead of like I ask you a question instead of answering the question you make sure you answering the question you make sure you lay the foundation so there's no lay the foundation so there's no misunderstanding between us that's what misunderstanding between us that's what we're doing here right if that is the we're doing here right if that is the the is if that is what you value within the is if that is what you value within the conversation to understand me then the conversation to understand me then then yes I want to make sure that I then yes I want to make sure that I explain but I'm not I'm asking you what explain but I'm not I'm asking you what you value in a conversation because I'm you value in a conversation because I'm asking you a question and based on your asking you a question and based on your response okay it's not like that what I response okay it's not like that what I value what I value in a conversation is value what I value in a conversation is for the conversation to lead to positive

for the conversation to lead to positive results okay so what I'm getting from you so I understand that that sounds like sort of understand that that sounds like sort of an abstract answer but based on the way an abstract answer but based on the way in which you're answering my questions I in which you're answering my questions I think you are very concerned about being think you are very concerned about being let me finish I think about being let me finish I think about being misunderstood and I also think that you misunderstood and I also think that you are not comfortable with the idea that are not comfortable with the idea that you're concerned about that that if I you're concerned about that that if I tell you that you're concerned about tell you that you're concerned about that that you're going to respond with that that you're going to respond with something telling me how you're not something telling me how you're not concerned about that because you're like concerned about that because you're like water that flows down hills and water water that flows down hills and water doesn't concern about anything you know doesn't concern about anything you know I'm not saying I'm not saying that I I'm not saying I'm not saying that I don't have emotions I have emotions but don't have emotions I have emotions but I don't I just don't value them like I I don't I just don't value them like I could without that I completely could without that I completely understand that so so like I just said understand that so so like I just said like you're not gonna be you're not like you're not gonna be you're not gonna you're not gonna believe or value

gonna you're not gonna believe or value the fact that you are concerned about the fact that you are concerned about being misunderstood but the thing is being misunderstood but the thing is though like I I don't really I don't though like I I don't really I don't really mind whether I'm being really mind whether I'm being misunderstood or not like for me I just misunderstood or not like for me I just want to understand that once we are on want to understand that once we are on the same page that's all yeah right so the same page that's all yeah right so so like that's exactly what I just said so like that's exactly what I just said right like you are not going to accept right like you are not going to accept or agree to the fact that you are or agree to the fact that you are concerned about being misunderstood and concerned about being misunderstood and you just said that well whereas I don't you just said that well whereas I don't think I don't experience any concern of think I don't experience any concern of being misunderstood like I believe that being misunderstood like I believe that I understand I don't think you I understand I don't think you experience the concern what I'm saying experience the concern what I'm saying is that if you analyze our conversation is that if you analyze our conversation you have a very very important goal in you have a very very important goal in the conversation to not be misunderstood the conversation to not be misunderstood and since you devalue emotions I'm sure and since you devalue emotions I'm sure you experience them wait wait wait or you experience them wait wait wait or what our value is that we have proper what our value is that we have proper communication communication yeah so that when you ask me a question

yeah so that when you ask me a question that I give you a nice you know a nice that I give you a nice you know a nice overview so you have a good good good overview so you have a good good good view in what I mean and absent and what view in what I mean and absent and what I'm trying absolutely like that that's I'm trying absolutely like that that's what I can I try to rephrase that to you what I can I try to rephrase that to you so what you value in a conversation is so what you value in a conversation is to be understood that's what you just to be understood that's what you just said right well what I value in a said right well what I value in a conversation is that it has positive conversation is that it has positive results being understood or not is just results being understood or not is just a tool in order to get positive results a tool in order to get positive results for me if I know we're on the same page for me if I know we're on the same page then understanding each other is by far then understanding each other is by far the most effective approach in order to the most effective approach in order to have the best positive results but if have the best positive results but if we're not on the same page then we're not on the same page then communication is merely a tool for both communication is merely a tool for both of us to achieve the goal while we have of us to achieve the goal while we have the conversation to begin with are the conversation to begin with are either this understood I think say what either this understood I think say what are you misunderstood when in general are you misunderstood when in general now in general well people call me a

now in general well people call me a cult leader and stuff like I don't even cult leader and stuff like I don't even like it yeah yeah people yeah I would like it yeah yeah people yeah I would say lack of understanding yes a lot of say lack of understanding yes a lot of is a very bit of lack of understanding is a very bit of lack of understanding but by by bigger than that like on the but by by bigger than that like on the Internet Internet I mean like what's that like for you I mean like what's that like for you well I focus on the people that I can well I focus on the people that I can work with to to have an impact in the work with to to have an impact in the world because I mean I try and I'm not world because I mean I try and I'm not busy with with like like if if there's a busy with with like like if if there's a lot of misery in the world right to put lot of misery in the world right to put it I like to use analogies because it's it I like to use analogies because it's it makes things very simple to it makes things very simple to understand like if they're also missing understand like if they're also missing in the world yeah that for me you know in the world yeah that for me you know the other thing that analogies do a the other thing that analogies do a theme is they separate us from the theme is they separate us from the equation right they become abstract and equation right they become abstract and it no longer becomes personal when you it no longer becomes personal when you use an analogy and it allows you to to have a better you know analytical view on the on the

you know analytical view on the on the problem and make better decisions problem and make better decisions absolutely so I think well III think it absolutely so I think well III think it allows you to have a more analytical allows you to have a more analytical view because when you use an analogy you view because when you use an analogy you remove yourself from the equation right remove yourself from the equation right you're not talking about you anymore you're not talking about you anymore you're talking about a third party well you're talking about a third party well so it sort of makes sense my so it sort of makes sense my conversation where yeah in a conversation where yeah in a conversation where you talk to thousands conversation where you talk to thousands of people it's very effective to do so of people it's very effective to do so because if I talk more about about my because if I talk more about about my own personal experience it might be a own personal experience it might be a little bit you know it might be little bit you know it might be alienating for some people while if I alienating for some people while if I use certain analogies where people can use certain analogies where people can have an easier time to relate with I can have an easier time to relate with I can resonate with more people I think you resonate with more people I think you know what I think would be awesome like know what I think would be awesome like I would love it if you could do me a I would love it if you could do me a favor I want you to just tell like don't favor I want you to just tell like don't talk about analogies like what I am talk about analogies like what I am curious about what I would like to curious about what I would like to understand is not analogies but is you understand is not analogies but is you and if you're concerned about alienating and if you're concerned about alienating me like as I know you're not concerned me like as I know you're not concerned about being misunderstood because you've

about being misunderstood because you've made that very very clear that you're made that very very clear that you're not concerned about being misunderstood not concerned about being misunderstood but that sometimes there's a chance that but that sometimes there's a chance that you alienate people when you answer you alienate people when you answer questions about yourself I'm okay with questions about yourself I'm okay with that that like I would love it if you could put like I would love it if you could put faith in me and understand that like faith in me and understand that like even if you talk about yourself that even if you talk about yourself that like I'm not gonna be alienated or if I like I'm not gonna be alienated or if I do feel alienated I'll let you know and do feel alienated I'll let you know and then you can set me straight so you're then you can set me straight so you're telling me I can trust you I'm asking telling me I can trust you I'm asking you to trust me I'm asking you to not you to trust me I'm asking you to not worry about alienating me and tell me worry about alienating me and tell me about yourself because that's what I'm about yourself because that's what I'm curious so like why are you curious curious so like why are you curious about myself about myself because you're here like I'd like to because you're here like I'd like to understand you that's that's what I'm understand you that's that's what I'm that's what I that's what I scream for that's what I that's what I scream for to talk to and uhm to talk to and uhm do you truly want to understand me I do you truly want to understand me I think so think so well that that question implies that well that that question implies that there may be some up part of the there may be some up part of the understand like so that's just a weird understand like so that's just a weird question do I truly want to understand

question do I truly want to understand you that it's not working because you that it's not working because because if how would I know the because if how would I know the difference between wanting to understand difference between wanting to understand you and truly wanting to understand you you and truly wanting to understand you I think I I think that if your true I think I I think that if your true intent is to understand me rather than intent is to understand me rather than understanding wanting to understand me understanding wanting to understand me for another you know separate goal the for another you know separate goal the the intent for which you are trying to the intent for which you are trying to understand me will highly define the way understand me will highly define the way you go about it like seeking first to you go about it like seeking first to understand and putting yourself in other understand and putting yourself in other people's shoes to truly see the world people's shoes to truly see the world through their eyes and try to understand through their eyes and try to understand it has always you know has a reason it has always you know has a reason behind it yeah me because you want to behind it yeah me because you want to achieve something yourself and depending achieve something yourself and depending on what your own goal is your own motive on what your own goal is your own motive is you will this process of trying to is you will this process of trying to understand me will be different like it understand me will be different like it might it might suit can I jump in I know might it might suit can I jump in I know you're on a roll but so like I you're on a roll but so like I completely agree with you so like I just completely agree with you so like I just want to point out what I think just want to point out what I think just happened there so you asked me do you

happened there so you asked me do you truly want to understand me I expressed truly want to understand me I expressed confusion about something your question confusion about something your question and then you provided an explanation and and then you provided an explanation and now I understand what you mean and my now I understand what you mean and my confusion is gone and I do truly want to confusion is gone and I do truly want to understand you okay and then let me tell understand you okay and then let me tell you my true motivation from that you my true motivation from that conversation is to see or to understand conversation is to see or to understand if we both are on the same page in terms of truly wanting to help people because if truly wanting to help people because if you want to help people and I want to you want to help people and I want to help people and we are truly you know help people and we are truly you know like like like going about it in the like like like going about it in the most effective manner and wanted to do most effective manner and wanted to do it it really because it's just the right thing really because it's just the right thing to do and we are responsible to do so to do and we are responsible to do so then then then then just a conversation then then then then just a conversation is not the only you know we can do a lot is not the only you know we can do a lot more than just having a conversation we

more than just having a conversation we can literally you know collaborate and can literally you know collaborate and and work together not saying that that's and work together not saying that that's going to happen I'm just saying like going to happen I'm just saying like what I realize is when it comes down to what I realize is when it comes down to like-minded people that truly want to like-minded people that truly want to give back to the world organizing give back to the world organizing yourself and working together allows you yourself and working together allows you to elevate your impact drastically so to elevate your impact drastically so that is you know why for me like that is you know why for me like initially that's what I'm trying to initially that's what I'm trying to understand your intent you're like like understand your intent you're like like do you go about it in a scientific way do you go about it in a scientific way helping people is everybody equal do you helping people is everybody equal do you see people you know like in you know see people you know like in you know that are starving as equal as gamers that are starving as equal as gamers like do you see every human as equal so like do you see every human as equal so where do you put your resources where do where do you put your resources where do you put your energy go do you go about you put your energy go do you go about it very scientifically and go like okay it very scientifically and go like okay if I can help so many people there that if I can help so many people there that is more important than you know this or is more important than you know this or that like that is what I want to try that like that is what I want to try understand and if that is not the case understand and if that is not the case which which I'm fine with which which I'm fine with then it's about then then the then it's about then then the conversation becomes more about like ah conversation becomes more about like ah what is your true intent and how do you

what is your true intent and how do you you know how do you how do you find a you know how do you how do you find a relationship with yourself when you know relationship with yourself when you know that truly helping people is not part of that truly helping people is not part of the equation but rather it's a mean the equation but rather it's a mean within your comfort that is that is the within your comfort that is that is the you know that is basically the sequence you know that is basically the sequence of my my true intent of this of my my true intent of this conversation so if you truly want to conversation so if you truly want to understand me that is what I would like understand me that is what I would like to know so and and if you have questions to know so and and if you have questions in that context great but I would also in that context great but I would also like to know your side of these things like to know your side of these things sure where you so first of all Athena I sure where you so first of all Athena I want to start by expressing gratitude want to start by expressing gratitude so I am so grateful that you instead of so I am so grateful that you instead of using analogies instead of asking me using analogies instead of asking me questions that you just shared a questions that you just shared a perspective about yourself right like perspective about yourself right like you just talked about why you're coming you just talked about why you're coming on stream and why we're having this on stream and why we're having this conversation what your motivations are conversation what your motivations are that I I'm really grateful for because that I I'm really grateful for because that helps me instead of like asking

that helps me instead of like asking like talking about abstract concepts it like talking about abstract concepts it sounds like you're here because you're sounds like you're here because you're you're wondering like where I'm coming you're wondering like where I'm coming from whether are our goals are aligned from whether are our goals are aligned and whether there's an opportunity for and whether there's an opportunity for collaboration and if I our vision is not collaboration and if I our vision is not aligned if I have not met some standard aligned if I have not met some standard that you're that you have for yourself that you're that you have for yourself or that some that's get simplified like or that some that's get simplified like that sure yes yeah I'm just it's fuzzy that sure yes yeah I'm just it's fuzzy then then you maybe you're curious about then then you maybe you're curious about if I'm not like you then like what am I if I'm not like you then like what am I like and why am I like that way yes yes like and why am I like that way yes yes yeah exactly yeah exactly that yeah that is really yes I I think that yeah that is really yes I I think this this works way better when we stop this this works way better when we stop using analogies and we actually just using analogies and we actually just like start talking to each other and like start talking to each other and making sure if we're on the same page making sure if we're on the same page right yes okay so thank you for doing right yes okay so thank you for doing that that that style of communication that that that style of communication helps me way more so I mean so can I helps me way more so I mean so can I tell you why I why I'm here to have this

tell you why I why I'm here to have this conversation yeah okay I would love to conversation yeah okay I would love to yeah so um I'm just here to talk to yeah so um I'm just here to talk to people because you know you kind of talk people because you know you kind of talk about like whether I'm in it to help about like whether I'm in it to help people and and whether I sort of know people and and whether I sort of know whether I'm analytical and and do I want whether I'm analytical and and do I want to distribute resources in a fair way to distribute resources in a fair way and things like that I mean I think the and things like that I mean I think the short answer is yes but I'm not very short answer is yes but I'm not very confident so I think that I am a human confident so I think that I am a human being and I'm prone to bias and although being and I'm prone to bias and although I'm a smart guy and I'm an analytical I'm a smart guy and I'm an analytical guy and I've trained for years and guy and I've trained for years and formal systems to understand things like formal systems to understand things like bias and emotions and the origins of bias and emotions and the origins of desires and things like that as well as desires and things like that as well as studying neuroscience and psychology and studying neuroscience and psychology and psychiatry then at the end of the day psychiatry then at the end of the day I'm like sort of a flawed instrument I'm like sort of a flawed instrument because that's what humans are that because that's what humans are that humans are not really logical creatures humans are not really logical creatures that like we have a lot of other things that like we have a lot of other things that drive our behavior so I'm here to that drive our behavior so I'm here to do the best that I can but I'm guessing do the best that I can but I'm guessing that your commitment is way higher than that your commitment is way higher than mine so I also mine so I also tend to be like somewhat of a really tend to be like somewhat of a really like balanced guy in life in terms of like balanced guy in life in terms of like I and I I don't nothin nothing

like I and I I don't nothin nothing about your so I apologize if this is about your so I apologize if this is being judgmental but I enjoy playing being judgmental but I enjoy playing video games I understand you do too so video games I understand you do too so maybe we're not that different but that maybe we're not that different but that you know I I mean I basically wake up you know I I mean I basically wake up and I try to help who I can in the way and I try to help who I can in the way that I can until I'm done helping people that I can until I'm done helping people and I need some time to recuperate or and I need some time to recuperate or regenerate and then I sort of like will regenerate and then I sort of like will go home and I'll do like you know simple go home and I'll do like you know simple things and be a regular human and then I things and be a regular human and then I come back three times a week to hop on come back three times a week to hop on stream and I try to help whoever the stream and I try to help whoever the universe puts in front of me and by the universe puts in front of me and by the universe I mean dank Moses who sets up universe I mean dank Moses who sets up who comes on here so so and so I don't who comes on here so so and so I don't like that is does that fit it that's it like that is does that fit it that's it that's what I'm about it's it's it's a that's what I'm about it's it's it's a it's an answer that gives me an answer it's an answer that gives me an answer to the question like yeah because like to the question like yeah because like the way I go about it I I take it I take the way I go about it I I take it I take that my commitment a lot further and it that my commitment a lot further and it might be connected with confidence might be connected with confidence because you you initiate it your

because you you initiate it your response by saying you're not that response by saying you're not that confident because you have your own confident because you have your own flaws and I do know we all have our own flaws and I do know we all have our own flaws but the beauty about humans is the flaws but the beauty about humans is the ability to learn from our flaws and and ability to learn from our flaws and and improve it and and not to settle with improve it and and not to settle with our flaws and it's right try to do our flaws and it's right try to do better and better I can bring the better and better I can bring the impression that I'm not confident it's impression that I'm not confident it's what you said you started your answer by what you said you started your answer by saying like yeah so I'm asking you so saying like yeah so I'm asking you so your impression of me would you say that your impression of me would you say that I come across as lacking and I think I I come across as lacking and I think I think my impression of you is is think my impression of you is is actually irrelevant if I trust what you actually irrelevant if I trust what you say because if you say you're not say because if you say you're not confident because of the human flaws confident because of the human flaws then I just accept that because you come then I just accept that because you come across a confidence but it's not about across a confidence but it's not about how you come across how you come across what you are is defined by what you are what you are is defined by what you are and my my impression of you does not and my my impression of you does not have to align with with the facts of have to align with with the facts of what you actually are therefore I always

what you actually are therefore I always question my impression like and I just I question my impression like and I just I give you the benefit of the doubt and give you the benefit of the doubt and what you say I just assumed to be true what you say I just assumed to be true unless there's an inconsistency yeah so unless there's an inconsistency yeah so I wouldn't say that I'm not confident I wouldn't say that I'm not confident and in fact I feel pretty confident I and in fact I feel pretty confident I would say that I just acknowledged that would say that I just acknowledged that I have flaws and that I'm not perfect I have flaws and that I'm not perfect and that there's a big difference I and that there's a big difference I would actually say that my confidence would actually say that my confidence stems from understanding that I have stems from understanding that I have limitations so I used to have way less limitations so I used to have way less confidence when I thought I was the best confidence when I thought I was the best thing since sliced bread as I've gained thing since sliced bread as I've gained experience and studied a lot of experience and studied a lot of different disciplines and worked a lot different disciplines and worked a lot with different people I I've developed a with different people I I've developed a lot of confidence out of understanding lot of confidence out of understanding that I'm limited and that I make that I'm limited and that I make mistakes and do you do you see these mistakes and do you do you see these mistakes and do these limitations as a mistakes and do these limitations as a strength to do better or as a weakness strength to do better or as a weakness of a human being of a human being ah both probably more of the four more

ah both probably more of the four more as a strength so I think that I tend to as a strength so I think that I tend to learn from my mistakes and that you learn from my mistakes and that you should learn from your mistakes and I should learn from your mistakes and I think that no matter how many mistakes I think that no matter how many mistakes I learn from I'm gonna continue making learn from I'm gonna continue making mistakes buddy but the beauty is that as mistakes buddy but the beauty is that as you keep learning from your mistakes you keep learning from your mistakes even though you still make mistakes they even though you still make mistakes they will be you know they will be from a will be you know they will be from a different type and won't be always the different type and won't be always the same as the previous once you've made so same as the previous once you've made so for example if yes so so we're talking for example if yes so so we're talking abstractly again right what you see that abstractly again right what you see that is abstractly because this is really is abstractly because this is really about you yeah but you're about to say about you yeah but you're about to say for example and then you were about to for example and then you were about to use an analogy so I just jumped in there use an analogy so I just jumped in there oh I wanted to give you as an example oh I wanted to give you as an example for example you playing video games and for example you playing video games and being addicted to it and learning from being addicted to it and learning from it okay apologies for interrupting you it okay apologies for interrupting you no it's fine has put you in a position no it's fine has put you in a position where where you were you now helping

where where you were you now helping other gamers with similar issues so that other gamers with similar issues so that yeah that that in a sense that mistake yeah that that in a sense that mistake has has made you come out stronger and has has made you come out stronger and absolutely you and and what I would I absolutely you and and what I would I would go even a step further and say would go even a step further and say that any type of you know like anywhere that any type of you know like anywhere where you can improve even in in where you can improve even in in in the more comfortable comfortable area in the more comfortable comfortable area of your life even there you can you can of your life even there you can you can push further further and and do even push further further and and do even more good that's that's all I'm trying more good that's that's all I'm trying to to point because for me I truly see to to point because for me I truly see myself as the same as you as the same as myself as the same as you as the same as everyone we're all equal like I I do I everyone we're all equal like I I do I do think we're all equal in our do think we're all equal in our environment and how we grow up for a big environment and how we grow up for a big part shapes us we're where we where we part shapes us we're where we where we end up and and how we see things but end up and and how we see things but fundamentally our essence is is the same fundamentally our essence is is the same and we we all just want to align with

and we we all just want to align with reality in and we're all just life and reality in and we're all just life and that's it and and basically like our that's it and and basically like our ability to you know understand these ability to you know understand these mechanics and understand how it works mechanics and understand how it works allows us to just you know be a better allows us to just you know be a better version of ourselves and there is no version of ourselves and there is no reason to act it at a certain point when reason to act it at a certain point when you feel comfortable say are here is the you feel comfortable say are here is the line and this is where I stop and that line and this is where I stop and that is why I just you know when you wear is why I just you know when you wear earlier saying like oh yeah maybe have a earlier saying like oh yeah maybe have a different way of going about life and different way of going about life and stuff or maybe it's it's it's it's stuff or maybe it's it's it's it's higher or well it didn't use the word higher or well it didn't use the word higher but it was in that direction I higher but it was in that direction I don't see myself as I live my life at a don't see myself as I live my life at a higher moral level or whatever I just higher moral level or whatever I just see I just try to be consistent and see I just try to be consistent and truthful to myself and I and I and I and truthful to myself and I and I and I and I you know I put the bar where reality I you know I put the bar where reality is and and and when I see how people are is and and and when I see how people are starving and stuff it really you know it starving and stuff it really you know it puts the bar quite high because I'm

puts the bar quite high because I'm living a very very comfortable life living a very very comfortable life compared to that and even if people feel compared to that and even if people feel like I'm sacrificing a lot or even if like I'm sacrificing a lot or even if they feel like whoa you really go out of they feel like whoa you really go out of your comfort zone because even when it your comfort zone because even when it comes down to games I only play games as comes down to games I only play games as function to reach people and and if it function to reach people and and if it doesn't suit the purpose to have an doesn't suit the purpose to have an impact I just don't do it because it's a impact I just don't do it because it's a waste of my time like for example right waste of my time like for example right and and and I'm very functional I and and and and I'm very functional I and I've raised more I think they just jump I've raised more I think they just jump in for a second in for a second are you sure so you've just but you've are you sure so you've just but you've been like talking for a little while and been like talking for a little while and I just want to pause for a second I just want to pause for a second just process what you've said can I ask just process what you've said can I ask you a couple of questions yes of course you a couple of questions yes of course okay um I just I just found my my

okay um I just I just found my my attention waning a little bit and I was attention waning a little bit and I was having trouble following you so it helps having trouble following you so it helps me to sort of just pause and make sure i me to sort of just pause and make sure i SPECT that because that is try to SPECT that because that is try to actually listen which yeah III because actually listen which yeah III because you said a couple of things that I was you said a couple of things that I was really curious about and I think I'd really curious about and I think I'd like to understand those better before like to understand those better before you keep going so that if we do have you keep going so that if we do have sort of a common foundation so you said sort of a common foundation so you said that you set the bar where reality is that you set the bar where reality is yes do you think that that is different yes do you think that that is different from what other people do that's a good from what other people do that's a good question because I would say other question because I would say other people always set the bar where the people always set the bar where the reality is and that's just how it is but reality is and that's just how it is but the thing is people's reality can be you the thing is people's reality can be you know can be very narrow can be very know can be very narrow can be very small can we just do you know they're small can we just do you know they're family and that's it while the reality family and that's it while the reality that I live in is is is the planet like that I live in is is is the planet like I really see and look at the issues all

I really see and look at the issues all around the world and and these issues around the world and and these issues when they're not in people's awareness when they're not in people's awareness because they're not busy with it then because they're not busy with it then it's not part of their reality and even it's not part of their reality and even their actual reality it doesn't exist their actual reality it doesn't exist it's only you know it's only when they it's only you know it's only when they see it on the news or whatever that they see it on the news or whatever that they get confronted by it same with like for get confronted by it same with like for example I'll give you another example example I'll give you another example like the meat industry like people when like the meat industry like people when they just buy it buy meat they just you they just buy it buy meat they just you know there is the reality what are you know there is the reality what are you doing again theme okay I like I'll give doing again theme okay I like I'll give the I'll make the I'll make the example the I'll make the I'll make the example personal like if you know personal like if you know but you just I I don't I don't feel like but you just I I don't I don't feel like I need an example can I actually can we I need an example can I actually can we go the other route where I just asked go the other route where I just asked you and and make sure you're on the same you and and make sure you're on the same page yeah thank good okay so you're page yeah thank good okay so you're saying that you set your standard to saying that you set your standard to reality in that everyone sets their reality in that everyone sets their standard to reality and that some standard to reality and that some people's and the realities are narrow people's and the realities are narrow and some people's realities are planet

and some people's realities are planet wide well like depending on your wide well like depending on your awareness it's it's bigger or smaller awareness it's it's bigger or smaller and that basically where is your and that basically where is your awareness in relation to like other awareness in relation to like other people people I see everybody as equal well that's I see everybody as equal well that's kind of interesting because because it kind of interesting because because it that you know you you make these you that you know you you make these you make these kind of like abstract make these kind of like abstract philosophical statements but when I philosophical statements but when I actually listen to what you say it actually listen to what you say it implies something else so maybe you can implies something else so maybe you can help me understand this because you want help me understand this because you want to say like so I asked you you know do to say like so I asked you you know do other people have objective realities other people have objective realities and then you said yes and then you and then you said yes and then you proceeded to make an actual comparison proceeded to make an actual comparison so you said that they're their realities so you said that they're their realities are narrow whereas my reality is planet are narrow whereas my reality is planet wide so you may think it's Harrison wide so you may think it's Harrison there I can't I can give you a really there I can't I can give you a really good example I'm sure you can but but good example I'm sure you can but but please don't get me an example I just please don't get me an example I just want to make sure yeah I know I know you want to make sure yeah I know I know you really want to give me an example and it

really want to give me an example and it seems like you just really he'll give seems like you just really he'll give you a very concrete one about just you you a very concrete one about just you can't you can't I know you just really can't you can't I know you just really want to right you want to give me an want to right you want to give me an example like do you know do you see that example like do you know do you see that within yourself that you really want to within yourself that you really want to just give me that example like you got just give me that example like you got it like you got to make me understand it like you got to make me understand you really need to tell me like do you you really need to tell me like do you see that within yourself that there's see that within yourself that there's something within you that's like a something within you that's like a volcano that wants to explode and just volcano that wants to explode and just give me that example give me that example No if you don't if you aren't eager to No if you don't if you aren't eager to hear it and there's no reason to bring hear it and there's no reason to bring it up I am NOT eager to hear I would it up I am NOT eager to hear I would like to ask a question and it's not that like to ask a question and it's not that I don't want to hear what you want to I don't want to hear what you want to say it's just that I find that I hopes say it's just that I find that I hopes and you way better without examples okay and you way better without examples okay so you made a comparison so you say that so you made a comparison so you say that all people are equal I'm with you you all people are equal I'm with you you made a comparison where you said that made a comparison where you said that other people have narrow realities and other people have narrow realities and your reality is planet wide yes okay so your reality is planet wide yes okay so is there an intrinsic value judgment is there an intrinsic value judgment there like is one better than the other

one benefits humanity more than the other so so you're saying that one is other so so you're saying that one is better that the planet-wide version of better that the planet-wide version of reality is better that white version of reality is better that white version of reality definitely leads to more reality definitely leads to more constructive actions towards society and constructive actions towards society and towards humanity and life in general yes towards humanity and life in general yes thank you very much for explaining that thank you very much for explaining that that helps me immensely to understand that helps me immensely to understand how was it what was it like when I when how was it what was it like when I when I sort of was a little bit of an [ __ ] I sort of was a little bit of an [ __ ] for which I apologize and and and sort for which I apologize and and and sort of jumped in when you were about to of jumped in when you were about to provide an analogy and ask you a provide an analogy and ask you a question that you answered is that okay question that you answered is that okay for you is it okay if I continue to do for you is it okay if I continue to do that mine okay I don't mind if this that mine okay I don't mind if this helps you and if it serves that purpose helps you and if it serves that purpose then you you can even yell at me I don't then you you can even yell at me I don't mind okay thank you so much man I mind okay thank you so much man I appreciate it it really helps me appreciate it it really helps me understand okay understand okay so um and if I cross the line please let so um and if I cross the line please let me know because it's not my intention me know because it's not my intention it's just I I kind of get the sense from it's just I I kind of get the sense from you that there's just this really like

you that there's just this really like instinctive responsive reflexive desire instinctive responsive reflexive desire to like help me understand through to like help me understand through analogies whereas I just I just want to analogies whereas I just I just want to ask questions and if you answer them ask questions and if you answer them plainly I think we'll get there I just plainly I think we'll get there I just have to I have to I have to be better at have to I have to I have to be better at responding in a way that resonates responding in a way that resonates better with you and I can do I better with you and I can do I appreciate that appreciate that yeah that's exactly what I'm asking you yeah that's exactly what I'm asking you to do so I'm really you know I'm to do so I'm really you know I'm adapting a bit yeah thank you I am too adapting a bit yeah thank you I am too yeah so so so it sounds like there is yeah so so so it sounds like there is sort of an inherent value judgement sort of an inherent value judgement about kind of the nature of reality and about kind of the nature of reality and how much that your version of reality how much that your version of reality benefits humanity would you call a benefits humanity would you call a judgement or would you call it judgement or would you call it observation hi yeah yeah I'm just thinking oh oh sorry sorry sorry it's a good question sorry sorry sorry it's a good question what I call it a judgment or what I call

what I call it a judgment or what I call it an observation I'm not sure I mean if it an observation I'm not sure I mean if someone is hot that was I was gonna give someone is hot that was I was gonna give if I'm busy with you know the if I'm busy with you know the environment right and I see where I put environment right and I see where I put my trash to make sure that it doesn't my trash to make sure that it doesn't you know that it doesn't pollute the you know that it doesn't pollute the planet and someone else just goes like planet and someone else just goes like whatever and throws the trash out and whatever and throws the trash out and litters I mean like there's the is just litters I mean like there's the is just a simple example it is it's a personal a simple example it is it's a personal one or if if I choose to not smoke one or if if I choose to not smoke because its effect will my health in the because its effect will my health in the long term what is he so simple related long term what is he so simple related to you know the the smoking example is to you know the the smoking example is also related to a more earth kind of also related to a more earth kind of awareness where I don't even deem my own awareness where I don't even deem my own life as as crazy as it is sound as life as as crazy as it is sound as myself my own myself my own it's like cells in my body they are it's like cells in my body they are there they just do what they gotta do there they just do what they gotta do for my life for me to live just as much

for my life for me to live just as much as I'm here part of the collective to to as I'm here part of the collective to to to give back life is not about me and if to give back life is not about me and if you have a if you make life very small you have a if you make life very small then you can believe it's about you even then you can believe it's about you even though it's not and that's why so many though it's not and that's why so many people experience a void in their life people experience a void in their life okay um is it okay if I switch gears and okay um is it okay if I switch gears and just ask you questions in sort of a just ask you questions in sort of a different vein sure let's go can you different vein sure let's go can you tell me a little bit about where you tell me a little bit about where you grew up and what your upbringing was grew up and what your upbringing was like I in Belgium my family was very like I in Belgium my family was very poor poor my father's mother came from a very poor my father's mother came from a very poor rural place rural place my mother is Belgium my mother was my my mother is Belgium my mother was my mother was raised Christian and my mother was raised Christian and my father was raised Muslim I wasn't like we were financially more strong around 1415 years old strong around 1415 years old hmm so yeah my youth was pretty poor but

hmm so yeah my youth was pretty poor but I didn't experience it as much my father I didn't experience it as much my father was quite was quite a very strong figure of authority while a very strong figure of authority while my mother was very caring and loving and my mother was very caring and loving and I've had have since I was really young I I've had have since I was really young I I was very much in contact with my I was very much in contact with my brother and his friends which were a lot brother and his friends which were a lot older talking about philosophy and stuff older talking about philosophy and stuff so very young I was already thinking so very young I was already thinking about stuff when I was already seven about stuff when I was already seven eight I was already thinking about you eight I was already thinking about you know like signs and stuff and was very know like signs and stuff and was very busy with it busy with it so what else yeah I guess that's that's so what else yeah I guess that's that's a I've been always I've never I got a a I've been always I've never I got a little bit you know like when I was little bit you know like when I was young you know some fights in school but young you know some fights in school but I was never like experiencing low I was never like experiencing low self-esteem and I was very unethical self-esteem and I was very unethical since I was very young a very very since I was very young a very very observer a very observant if I didn't observer a very observant if I didn't really develop identity when I was 13

really develop identity when I was 13 like puberty didn't hit me so hard and I like puberty didn't hit me so hard and I just wanted to give back my entire life just wanted to give back my entire life because I've Irie you know saw the wrong because I've Irie you know saw the wrong in the world and when I saw people that in the world and when I saw people that were struggling and me not there is just were struggling and me not there is just no difference between me and them it's no difference between me and them it's just like why this is just unfair and if just like why this is just unfair and if I can do something about it I got to do I can do something about it I got to do something about it because else yeah something about it because else yeah what if I'm that kid I mean if the roles what if I'm that kid I mean if the roles were different and this is just not okay were different and this is just not okay and you said your dad was an authority and you said your dad was an authority figure what do you mean by that he was a very uh yeah like very what is the word he became very fundamental the word he became very fundamental Islamic rule alder and was very just a Islamic rule alder and was very just a very dominant person that at times were very dominant person that at times were quite it was quite I tried to avoid him

quite it was quite I tried to avoid him when I was younger because it was quite when I was younger because it was quite what do you call it what do you call it yeah just yeah well it's not pleasant to yeah just yeah well it's not pleasant to be around him but when it comes down to be around him but when it comes down to trauma or something I I never got trauma or something I I never got traumatized by him or anything I don't traumatized by him or anything I don't know for my other siblings if it was the know for my other siblings if it was the same I think I was like I was always same I think I was like I was always doing really well in school and such so doing really well in school and such so I didn't get the the heat I was not the I didn't get the the heat I was not the front line of the one that was taking front line of the one that was taking the blame or frustrations of my father the blame or frustrations of my father when he was angry so I was always like when he was angry so I was always like in my own little corner playing with in my own little corner playing with Lego or whatever when I was a kid so I Lego or whatever when I was a kid so I went through childhood pretty went through childhood pretty unscratched unless no I'm not unscratched unless no I'm not suppressing anything there's nothing I suppressing anything there's nothing I forgot about so there's a few things forgot about so there's a few things that happen in my past that that had

that happen in my past that that had quite a hard impact on me emotionally quite a hard impact on me emotionally but even later on in life I managed to but even later on in life I managed to process them by reflecting on it like process them by reflecting on it like for example like you have in culture of for example like you have in culture of Islam they kill a sheep like that kind Islam they kill a sheep like that kind of stuff but I was already you know I of stuff but I was already you know I was it was already vegetarian before was it was already vegetarian before that because of my brother but seeing that because of my brother but seeing these kind of things made me also these kind of things made me also realise what are we doing I mean it realise what are we doing I mean it doesn't make any sense but like it doesn't make any sense but like it sometimes was hard for me to understand sometimes was hard for me to understand why grown-ups can be so inconsistent but why grown-ups can be so inconsistent but I very quickly came to the realization I very quickly came to the realization that people are not perfect and that that people are not perfect and that that even pointing out flaws or whatever that even pointing out flaws or whatever leads to more harm than good so yeah leads to more harm than good so yeah okay I became very pragmatic in the way okay I became very pragmatic in the way I certainly see that you seemed very I certainly see that you seemed very pragmatic you seemed very analytical pragmatic you seemed very analytical you seem very philosophical you seem to

you seem very philosophical you seem to live by truths right that you've you've live by truths right that you've you've discovered through reflection can I ask discovered through reflection can I ask you a couple of questions just about you a couple of questions just about some of the stuff that you said sure so some of the stuff that you said sure so you said that you didn't sort of fail you said that you didn't sort of fail you never face the brunt of your you never face the brunt of your father's anger father's anger that you were kind of off in the corner that you were kind of off in the corner playing Legos and like someone else was playing Legos and like someone else was facing the blunt with the brunt yes like facing the blunt with the brunt yes like my father in the past could be very it my father in the past could be very it could be very aggressive verbally and could be very aggressive verbally and very what is it the meaning is that the very what is it the meaning is that the word like really putting people down word like really putting people down yeah but I was never the target because yeah but I was never the target because because I was really I was basically the because I was really I was basically the how do you say it the exemplar kid to how do you say it the exemplar kid to put it that way I always had good grades put it that way I always had good grades and so my brother and sisters how many

and so my brother and sisters how many sisters do you have to and also in in sisters do you have to and also in in Islam culture like definitely Islam culture like definitely traditional woman are not always treated traditional woman are not always treated the best so like that's that's like the best so like that's that's like that's also a big source of them being that's also a big source of them being the target and my older brother yeah he the target and my older brother yeah he he had to deal with a lot of [ __ ] as he had to deal with a lot of [ __ ] as well in that regards I'm sorry that well in that regards I'm sorry that sounds like sort of a rough situation sounds like sort of a rough situation well I think every family has its own well I think every family has its own has its own obstacles but he was there has its own obstacles but he was there for us his entire life and he provided for us his entire life and he provided yeah and yeah you've made mistakes he yeah and yeah you've made mistakes he definitely made mistakes but sure definitely made mistakes but sure in retrospect he you know it could have in retrospect he you know it could have been a lot worse and he was actually I been a lot worse and he was actually I would say definitely above average when

would say definitely above average when it comes down to giving an aim a score it comes down to giving an aim a score okay good more than five has a father okay good more than five has a father okay so it sounds like he wasn't perfect okay so it sounds like he wasn't perfect no one really is and at the same time no one really is and at the same time you're grateful for on average most of you're grateful for on average most of what he did for you yeah yeah yeah what he did for you yeah yeah yeah definitely like all doing retrospect if definitely like all doing retrospect if I could go back in time I would have I I could go back in time I would have I would have been more capable of steering would have been more capable of steering things into a more constructive things into a more constructive direction because there is also there direction because there is also there was a divorce and stuff was a divorce and stuff I could have done things better but I I could have done things better but I didn't had the the knowledge I have now didn't had the the knowledge I have now when I was younger when I was younger who knows it sounds like you don't feel who knows it sounds like you don't feel guilty about that no I don't feel guilty guilty about that no I don't feel guilty about it I mean this is what it is I about it I mean this is what it is I just always try to do my best just always try to do my best dear do you remember so you sort of like dear do you remember so you sort of like rare but you painted a sort of a vivid rare but you painted a sort of a vivid image of like you playing Legos in the image of like you playing Legos in the corner while your dad was maybe yelling corner while your dad was maybe yelling at your brother do you remember how you

at your brother do you remember how you felt when that was going on when you felt when that was going on when you were a kid yeah I was like when these were a kid yeah I was like when these things happened I was just like I was it things happened I was just like I was it was getting tuned out like I didn't even was getting tuned out like I didn't even I was just like he had there too because I was just like he had there too because my brother and my sister were much older my brother and my sister were much older than me they were already you know like than me they were already you know like what was it sixteen seventeen when I was what was it sixteen seventeen when I was eight I was just like yeah it's it's eight I was just like yeah it's it's grown-ups you know like yelling at each grown-ups you know like yelling at each other whatever like it's just almost other whatever like it's just almost like another day you know like there was like another day you know like there was no it didn't make me feel like crawling no it didn't make me feel like crawling into a into a corner out of fear I was into a into a corner out of fear I was just there and I was tuning it out just there and I was tuning it out because yeah because it was it was just because yeah because it was it was just me any sense me any sense normal even though you're it's respect normal even though you're it's respect it's not that normal yeah it's kind of it's not that normal yeah it's kind of weird right like what what you started weird right like what what you started to believe was normal that sort of to believe was normal that sort of wasn't normal wasn't normal it's also a kid as a kid it just is like

it's also a kid as a kid it just is like that I do it's it's almost it's almost that I do it's it's almost it's almost like you're like earlier when you said like you're like earlier when you said like oh yeah it's not like anything like oh yeah it's not like anything traumatic happened but we're sort of traumatic happened but we're sort of describing is like sort of traumatic but describing is like sort of traumatic but it was so normal that you sort of don't it was so normal that you sort of don't even see it that way yeah but like even see it that way yeah but like although we when I think about traumas although we when I think about traumas and I hear what's two people have to go and I hear what's two people have to go through I see myself as you know through I see myself as you know privileged like some people got really privileged like some people got really sexually abused physically abused and sexually abused physically abused and really like you know like emotionally really like you know like emotionally abused that makes sense right like abused that makes sense right like you're kind of saying that other people you're kind of saying that other people in the world and I'm sort of seeing you in the world and I'm sort of seeing you know pardon me because this is just kind know pardon me because this is just kind of how my mind works but something of a of how my mind works but something of a theme like it's almost like when you theme like it's almost like when you grew up grew up you know that things were sort of it you know that things were sort of it almost sounds like a little bit unfair almost sounds like a little bit unfair in terms of of you know your dad sort of in terms of of you know your dad sort of never picked on you because you were a never picked on you because you were a good kid and and that maybe he was doing good kid and and that maybe he was doing other things like not he wasn't like other things like not he wasn't like sexually abusive or anything like that

sexually abusive or anything like that and you've said very clear I'm not and you've said very clear I'm not trying to paint your dad out to be a bad trying to paint your dad out to be a bad guy because you've you know stated very guy because you've you know stated very clearly that uh you know on average he clearly that uh you know on average he was better than most and you're grateful was better than most and you're grateful for what he provided I'm not disputing for what he provided I'm not disputing that or trying to trap you or anything that or trying to trap you or anything at the same time you know I I do think at the same time you know I I do think it's kind of interesting because I'm it's kind of interesting because I'm just trying to put myself and I'm gonna just trying to put myself and I'm gonna talk about me or I'm gonna use an talk about me or I'm gonna use an analogy or use an abstract version I'm analogy or use an abstract version I'm trying to kind of put myself in the trying to kind of put myself in the shoes of you know someone who grows up shoes of you know someone who grows up in a household where their dad is in a household where their dad is demeaning and verbally abusive and how demeaning and verbally abusive and how it would be strange for someone to kind it would be strange for someone to kind of grow up in that sort of household if of grow up in that sort of household if they're never the target and oddly they're never the target and oddly enough I could sort of see how that enough I could sort of see how that could lead to this kind of fundamental could lead to this kind of fundamental realization especially if that kid was realization especially if that kid was super analytical that the world is super analytical that the world is fundamentally at like an unfair place fundamentally at like an unfair place and even though I have it better than and even though I have it better than other people it's really unfortunate other people it's really unfortunate that other people have it worse and that that other people have it worse and that I wish things weren't like that and I I wish things weren't like that and I think that things should be more equal

well yeah basically what you're trying to get that is where does my motivation to get that is where does my motivation come from from doing good in the world come from from doing good in the world yeah I mean I'm saying that that the yeah I mean I'm saying that that the circumstance you're you're offering I circumstance you're you're offering I would seems to fit with the motivation would seems to fit with the motivation that you have but I wouldn't say that that you have but I wouldn't say that such a fundamental motivation comes from such a fundamental motivation comes from such a simplistic place yes indeed like such a simplistic place yes indeed like that's exactly what I wanted to answer that's exactly what I wanted to answer like yeah the the biggest source of the like yeah the the biggest source of the biggest source of of doing what I'm biggest source of of doing what I'm doing is just the hard reality like and doing is just the hard reality like and the different experience of going the different experience of going through it I have not even done that I through it I have not even done that I mean III didn't get out I didn't grow up mean III didn't get out I didn't grow up in a war zone in a war zone I never starved and and I've never liked I never starved and and I've never liked what I also this is actually something what I also this is actually something that's gonna sound a bit weird but it's that's gonna sound a bit weird but it's it's a thought experiment I've done so it's a thought experiment I've done so much when I was younger much when I was younger and it's gonna sound a bit weird but

and it's gonna sound a bit weird but it's it's gonna give you a better better it's it's gonna give you a better better ID that's why I'm bringing bringing it ID that's why I'm bringing bringing it up like for me the time and the place up like for me the time and the place you were born is all just random like I you were born is all just random like I could have born in during World War two could have born in during World War two I could have been born I could have been I could have been born I could have been born a Jew and I could have been you born a Jew and I could have been you know brought to the you know to the know brought to the you know to the concentration camps and if that would concentration camps and if that would have happened and that did happen to have happened and that did happen to many people and if it would have many people and if it would have happened to me and I would see my entire happened to me and I would see my entire family you know basically getting killed family you know basically getting killed and and me then being forced to do you and and me then being forced to do you know hard labor with a gun pointed at my know hard labor with a gun pointed at my head if I'm capable in that scenario head if I'm capable in that scenario right to do more good in the world then right to do more good in the world then if I am doing right now then in a sense if I am doing right now then in a sense I'd be a better person in that situation I'd be a better person in that situation and I cannot accept that I cannot accept and I cannot accept that I cannot accept that that fact and that's a big reason that that fact and that's a big reason why my bar is quite you know when I said why my bar is quite you know when I said earlier in my bar is hard my bar is earlier in my bar is hard my bar is quite high because I know if I was in quite high because I know if I was in that reality that's what I would be that reality that's what I would be doing I mean like I would literally be doing I mean like I would literally be working 16 hours a day as a slave while

working 16 hours a day as a slave while I lost my family and not even being able I lost my family and not even being able to properly you know like give say to properly you know like give say goodbye or anything which is much more goodbye or anything which is much more cruel and if I could change at that cruel and if I could change at that moment if I if I would given be given moment if I if I would given be given the choice to live my life like I'm the choice to live my life like I'm living now rather than that life I would living now rather than that life I would do it in a heartbeat and I want to be do it in a heartbeat and I want to be able to do better than that version and able to do better than that version and as crazy as it sounds because I give as crazy as it sounds because I give this example a lot on the stream it is a this example a lot on the stream it is a fact like if I was born in and not even fact like if I was born in and not even that if tomorrow there is you know that if tomorrow there is you know whatever there's some it sounds to me whatever there's some it sounds to me like you're just sort of like really it's such such a strange thing that you're kind of saying because what I'm you're kind of saying because what I'm picking up from you I I wouldn't be picking up from you I I wouldn't be surprised if you don't sort of get that surprised if you don't sort of get that you're not trying to convey this but you're not trying to convey this but it's sort of weird I mean you're talking it's sort of weird I mean you're talking about almost like that what you're doing about almost like that what you're doing in this world is insignificant and that in this world is insignificant and that you could be doing so much more know you could be doing so much more know what I'm doing right now is is very what I'm doing right now is is very significant because I'm putting the

significant because I'm putting the effort to do so okay like what I've what effort to do so okay like what I've what I've achieved so far is really a lot I've achieved so far is really a lot like to give you a few examples just to like to give you a few examples just to give you an idea I raised more than 25 give you an idea I raised more than 25 million for children in need making me million for children in need making me one of the biggest philanthropists on one of the biggest philanthropists on the Internet in a very effective manner the Internet in a very effective manner effective programs that I've even effective programs that I've even visited I visited ebola-hit country to visited I visited ebola-hit country to raise awareness and I've also started raise awareness and I've also started the place and that's why they call me a the place and that's why they call me a cult where people can apply and work cult where people can apply and work together that have the same mindset of together that have the same mindset of wanting to help the world and you know wanting to help the world and you know basically find like-minded people to do basically find like-minded people to do good in the world and and I'm going to good in the world and and I'm going to try to even do more like trying to try to even do more like trying to implement universal basic income in in implement universal basic income in in very poor places and stuff I'm very very poor places and stuff I'm very proactive and I also do real talk every proactive and I also do real talk every day where I talk about you know people day where I talk about you know people reflecting on these things and such and reflecting on these things and such and that's why also some people said to talk that's why also some people said to talk to you because you do similar things so to you because you do similar things so I I don't put myself down or anything I

I I don't put myself down or anything I always try to do better though so it's always try to do better though so it's not like I'm just you know also trying not like I'm just you know also trying to brag or anything for me I just I just to brag or anything for me I just I just try to do what is best at any given try to do what is best at any given moment and yeah so I think you know it's moment and yeah so I think you know it's kind of interesting because I like you kind of interesting because I like you have this very interesting have this very interesting conversational sort of pattern and I'm conversational sort of pattern and I'm not quite sure what to make of it where not quite sure what to make of it where you'll say or do something and then you you'll say or do something and then you kind of deny it immediately afterward kind of deny it immediately afterward and like what like so for example like and like what like so for example like yeah you just talked about all of your yeah you just talked about all of your accomplishments and then like accomplishments and then like immediately afterward like is the first immediately afterward like is the first time you said I don't brag like earlier time you said I don't brag like earlier when you were talking about your when you were talking about your upbringing you were like there was upbringing you were like there was nothing traumatic but my dad was kind of nothing traumatic but my dad was kind of yelling and stuff like that you just yelling and stuff like that you just have this interesting and sometimes when have this interesting and sometimes when I like repeat back to you what you say I like repeat back to you what you say it seems like there's a disc it seems like there's a disc between the way I'm perceiving your between the way I'm perceiving your words and what your intention is which words and what your intention is which sort of makes sense because it you know sort of makes sense because it you know it seems like you're very careful about it seems like you're very careful about being understood properly the reason why

being understood properly the reason why I'm making this clarification because I'm making this clarification because I've been streaming for a very long time I've been streaming for a very long time and whenever I bring up the amount of and whenever I bring up the amount of money I raise people immediately go into money I raise people immediately go into chat charity shield charity shield he's chat charity shield charity shield he's bragging he's bragging so I want to make bragging he's bragging so I want to make sure that I'm just trying to state the sure that I'm just trying to state the facts but yet maybe if if I wasn't facts but yet maybe if if I wasn't having a conversation just with you I having a conversation just with you I would not even mention this it's because would not even mention this it's because I'm aware that that more people watch I'm aware that that more people watch and this is really like the charity and this is really like the charity stuff at the moment I talk about charity stuff at the moment I talk about charity stuff everybody goes like oh hey there stuff everybody goes like oh hey there he goes again because they think that I he goes again because they think that I use the good work that I did as use the good work that I did as justification to be aesthetically feel justification to be aesthetically feel when they say that honestly now like I don't feel anything because I've already processed it in the past it was already processed it in the past it was it was I had a hard time understanding it was I had a hard time understanding why but I've come to acceptance I've

why but I've come to acceptance I've done I've come to understand why it done I've come to understand why it happens is because it is because people happens is because it is because people project very easily themselves and just project very easily themselves and just see me as something that I'm not see me as something that I'm not they think I'm a cult leader they think they think I'm a cult leader they think I'm a brain washer they think I'm I'm a brain washer they think I'm scamming even though all these things scamming even though all these things are not real they're not true they are not real they're not true they believe that because they feel like it believe that because they feel like it and that's it like it doesn't matter and that's it like it doesn't matter what is true or not what is true or not when they feel like it it must be true when they feel like it it must be true and and for me as someone that is much and and for me as someone that is much more analytical it's very hard to relate more analytical it's very hard to relate to it because if the truth tells me to it because if the truth tells me differently it's really very hard for me differently it's really very hard for me to to deny it but I've come to realize to to deny it but I've come to realize also it you know the entire post truth also it you know the entire post truth world we live in and such that is world we live in and such that is becoming more and more strengthened with becoming more and more strengthened with social media and the echo chambers social media and the echo chambers created and stuff where people get you created and stuff where people get you know their life strengthened that is know their life strengthened that is just you know a normal day for them and just you know a normal day for them and and that's the thing like I've come to and that's the thing like I've come to accept that because in the past my accept that because in the past my frustration came from a lack of frustration came from a lack of understanding I was like why I'm doing understanding I was like why I'm doing all this good then I made videos even all this good then I made videos even with you know like we'd save the

with you know like we'd save the children cuz I raised a lot for save children cuz I raised a lot for save children children I showed video I showed proof people I showed video I showed proof people kept saying I'm scammers even big kept saying I'm scammers even big streamer saying I was a scammer I think streamer saying I was a scammer I think I'm concerned that you have a you have a I'm concerned that you have a you have a very subtle but powerful ego can I share very subtle but powerful ego can I share some thoughts with you sure sure so like some thoughts with you sure sure so like let's just take this example ok so you let's just take this example ok so you were kind of saying that you know you were kind of saying that you know you you were you were you used to be like you were you were you used to be like sort of not really happy or struggling sort of not really happy or struggling to understand because you still don't to understand because you still don't really talk about emotions at all you really talk about emotions at all you were saying that you didn't understand were saying that you didn't understand why these people thought this way about why these people thought this way about you but that essentially that they're you but that essentially that they're projecting and even though they're projecting and even though they're incorrect they just believe this and so incorrect they just believe this and so like you know that that it's just like a like you know that that it's just like a misunderstanding on your part what I misunderstanding on your part what I think the really dangerous thing there think the really dangerous thing there is is like you know how do you know that is is like you know how do you know that you are not the one that doesn't you are not the one that doesn't understand because you're kind of saying understand because you're kind of saying like oh I'm objectively right and

like oh I'm objectively right and everyone else is projecting whereas how everyone else is projecting whereas how do you know do you know you're not the one who's projecting and you're not the one who's projecting and they're not the ones who are objectively they're not the ones who are objectively right because like for example if I if I right because like for example if I if I if I walked out it like that I if I walked out it like that I understand that but like with this understand that but like with this specific example it's very hard to do specific example it's very hard to do that because I'm talking about the fact that because I'm talking about the fact I mean it's like if I say the money goes I mean it's like if I say the money goes all to charity and it actually goes all all to charity and it actually goes all to charity there is no misunderstanding to charity there is no misunderstanding on my part because I know all the money on my part because I know all the money goes to charity I mean there's evidence goes to charity I mean there's evidence everything it's very transparent as well everything it's very transparent as well so if people then come to me and call me so if people then come to me and call me a scammer then I know it's a a scammer then I know it's a misunderstanding on their part it's not misunderstanding on their part it's not sure what about being a cult leader say sure what about being a cult leader say well what about being a cult leader well well what about being a cult leader well I'm open I'm open to - I'm open to the I'm open I'm open to - I'm open to the idea that I might be I don't think it is idea that I might be I don't think it is based on the evidence that I see the

based on the evidence that I see the properties of a cult leader I don't properties of a cult leader I don't think I am but there is a chance that I think I am but there is a chance that I am and that I'm just bullshitting myself am and that I'm just bullshitting myself and that's that's the that's you know and that's that's the that's you know that's where I find it as a strength that's where I find it as a strength where I I always assume that what I where I I always assume that what I believe might be wrong I don't think I'm believe might be wrong I don't think I'm a cult leader based on the data points I a cult leader based on the data points I have but there is a chance that I have a have but there is a chance that I have a cult leader and I'm just not aware of it cult leader and I'm just not aware of it but so far no but nobody has shown I but so far no but nobody has shown I mean I'm happy to hear you sort of say mean I'm happy to hear you sort of say that I'm not saying that you are you that I'm not saying that you are you aren't but I think this is this kind of aren't but I think this is this kind of like for you to kind of admit that maybe like for you to kind of admit that maybe you are bullshitting this entire thing you are bullshitting this entire thing maybe you are a cult leader that that maybe you are a cult leader that that maybe you're wrong I think is like a maybe you're wrong I think is like a very important perspective to take right very important perspective to take right an idea that I can I share with you what an idea that I can I share with you what I think sort of is is what I'm seeing I think sort of is is what I'm seeing this is just what one man's opinion okay this is just what one man's opinion okay so I'm not claiming this is genius I'm so I'm not claiming this is genius I'm not it's reality I'm just gonna share not it's reality I'm just gonna share with you what I see I think that your with you what I see I think that your mission is very very real so I think

mission is very very real so I think your your devotion to the cause is very your your devotion to the cause is very very real I think that you really do very real I think that you really do long to make the world a better place long to make the world a better place and there are just a lot of like bizarre and there are just a lot of like bizarre things that I think the way that you things that I think the way that you relate to your emotions the way that you relate to your emotions the way that you conceptualize yourself you conceptualize yourself you kind of like view your beliefs as truth kind of like view your beliefs as truth like and I recognize that when I say like and I recognize that when I say that statement to you you're going to that statement to you you're going to respond by saying oh no all people are respond by saying oh no all people are equal in my truth is no greater than equal in my truth is no greater than other people's truth like I get that you other people's truth like I get that you say that but if you actually listen to say that but if you actually listen to the way that you talk for example when I the way that you talk for example when I point out this issue of like a lot of point out this issue of like a lot of people say that you're a cult leader you people say that you're a cult leader you kind of default to them being the ones kind of default to them being the ones that are projecting and you're the one that are projecting and you're the one who's factually correct and I think part who's factually correct and I think part of the reason that maybe this goes on is of the reason that maybe this goes on is because I do think that you're not you because I do think that you're not you have it sounds like you've become have it sounds like you've become accustomed to maybe numbing out emotions accustomed to maybe numbing out emotions I'm not really sure about this this is I'm not really sure about this this is like where I will be the first to admit

like where I will be the first to admit that I don't really know but generally that I don't really know but generally speaking if you look at data a lot of speaking if you look at data a lot of times when people grow up in households times when people grow up in households where there is some form of abuse even where there is some form of abuse even if they're not members victims of the if they're not members victims of the verbal demeaning or whatever that they verbal demeaning or whatever that they can develop like an interesting can develop like an interesting relationship with their emotions so relationship with their emotions so their emotions sort of affect them less their emotions sort of affect them less they learn to suppress things and you they learn to suppress things and you sort of described a scenario that kind sort of described a scenario that kind of fits with that right like you if it of fits with that right like you if it became normal to you there's sort of became normal to you there's sort of like toxicity there's like objective like toxicity there's like objective toxicity in your household and you've toxicity in your household and you've become normalized to it it's become kind become normalized to it it's become kind of like normal to you and anytime we of like normal to you and anytime we sort of talk about things you sort of sort of talk about things you sort of say you experience emotions but at the say you experience emotions but at the same time like when I ask you about them same time like when I ask you about them your mind sort of goes to this and this your mind sort of goes to this and this is another pattern that I've observed in is another pattern that I've observed in some people unclear if it if it applies some people unclear if it if it applies to you but that generally the process of to you but that generally the process of abstraction and pulling yourself out of abstraction and pulling yourself out of the equation and being non personal with the equation and being non personal with the way that you view the world being the way that you view the world being objective instead of subjective

objective instead of subjective separates you from some of those separates you from some of those subjective influences and in my subjective influences and in my experience a lot of times when people experience a lot of times when people are not aware of their subjective are not aware of their subjective influences are the ones where they sort influences are the ones where they sort of lead to a logical conclusion that of lead to a logical conclusion that they think objectively is true even they think objectively is true even though they're completely and but they though they're completely and but they think it's logically true because think it's logically true because they're not aware of how their mind is they're not aware of how their mind is shaping their impressions I can I can shaping their impressions I can I can understand that you can make this kind understand that you can make this kind of you know of you know connections I do have to say though that connections I do have to say though that when it comes down to emotions and when it comes down to emotions and emotional intelligence I would say that emotional intelligence I would say that I have that I tried even more in that I have that I tried even more in that regards than when it's about cognitive regards than when it's about cognitive intelligence it is because I understand intelligence it is because I understand my emotions so well and I've had an my emotions so well and I've had an always a very you know honest always a very you know honest conversation about how I feel towards conversation about how I feel towards myself in trying to understand them that myself in trying to understand them that I managed to get to a point where I am I managed to get to a point where I am now because if it was suppressing

now because if it was suppressing suppressing mechanics that I would be suppressing mechanics that I would be using in order to achieve what I have using in order to achieve what I have achieved I would have already had a achieved I would have already had a nervous breakdown nervous breakdown I would I would like I wouldn't have I would I would like I wouldn't have gotten where I am gotten where I am I'm very stable and very fulfilled and I'm very stable and very fulfilled and satisfied as a person and when certain satisfied as a person and when certain strong emotional events happens like for strong emotional events happens like for example my father passing away like I example my father passing away like I processed them and and and I and I cry processed them and and and I and I cry and I feel the emotions and I try to and I feel the emotions and I try to understand and make sense of it and and understand and make sense of it and and I and I go through the grieving process I and I go through the grieving process just like anyone else but because I have just like anyone else but because I have such an honest relationship with myself such an honest relationship with myself it goes very fast like it goes much it goes very fast like it goes much faster than with my siblings for example faster than with my siblings for example even though it's you know it's it's of even though it's you know it's it's of course unfortunate and what I'm just course unfortunate and what I'm just trying to explain is like this sense of trying to explain is like this sense of separation that you're talking about separation that you're talking about like that even it's a very big trait of like that even it's a very big trait of narcissism as well do you think your narcissism as well do you think your narcissistic no I don't think so okay I

narcissistic no I don't think so okay I don't think so at all I wouldn't deem don't think so at all I wouldn't deem everybody equally if I was arson I would everybody equally if I was arson I would for myself being better than others I for myself being better than others I wouldn't work so hard as well to help wouldn't work so hard as well to help other people if I would be narcissists other people if I would be narcissists because why I'm better than them like because why I'm better than them like yes so that's kind of interesting yes so that's kind of interesting because I think this is once again like because I think this is once again like something that I'm having trouble something that I'm having trouble understanding and I think I'm gonna have understanding and I think I'm gonna have to wrap up in a few minutes I'll give to wrap up in a few minutes I'll give you kind of I'm just kind of letting you you kind of I'm just kind of letting you know but so I'll just give you an know but so I'll just give you an example right so like you make these example right so like you make these these abstract philosophical statements these abstract philosophical statements like I believe all people are equal but like I believe all people are equal but if we actually pay attention to what you if we actually pay attention to what you say say you frequently compare yourself for you frequently compare yourself for example you just talked about how you example you just talked about how you process emotions more fully and more process emotions more fully and more rapidly than your siblings after your rapidly than your siblings after your dad passes away and that's a pattern dad passes away and that's a pattern throughout this conversation you say all throughout this conversation you say all people are equal but by the way in this people are equal but by the way in this particular example I'm objectively particular example I'm objectively better at processing emotions than other better at processing emotions than other people like you use those kinds of

people like you use those kinds of examples all the time that sort of say examples all the time that sort of say oh others have an error in reality and I oh others have an error in reality and I have a planet-wide reality the thing is have a planet-wide reality the thing is though equality does not mean that you though equality does not mean that you can have certain traits that are you can have certain traits that are you know factually more nearer advanced and know factually more nearer advanced and others I mean like do you do you think others I mean like do you do you think that personality is on a fundamental that personality is on a fundamental level we are all equal as human beings level we are all equal as human beings that equality automatically brings about that equality automatically brings about that certain people that can contribute that certain people that can contribute more than others for example that that more than others for example that that that aspect also has to be part of the that aspect also has to be part of the equation and that's the practical equation and that's the practical reality of equality the practical reality of equality the practical reality I have one last question sorry I reality I have one last question sorry I keep interrupting you I apologize I keep interrupting you I apologize I really do you think that narcissists really do you think that narcissists believe that and I'm I don't I don't believe that and I'm I don't I don't know if you're narcissists or not so know if you're narcissists or not so this isn't some kind of veiled attack this isn't some kind of veiled attack I'm genuinely curious because I have a I'm genuinely curious because I have a follow-up question do you think that

follow-up question do you think that narcissists believe that they are that narcissists believe that they are that they have that they're objectively they have that they're objectively better in some ways than other people I better in some ways than other people I think narcissus is glorified himself yeah so I think you have a very interesting kind of ego so I think you interesting kind of ego so I think you have the ego of having no ego so when I have the ego of having no ego so when I was studying in India one of my teachers was studying in India one of my teachers once told me that there are two kinds of once told me that there are two kinds of ego and one is very subtle and it's ego and one is very subtle and it's something that you see in people who are something that you see in people who are highly spiritual one is the standard ego highly spiritual one is the standard ego which is kind of like narcissism and one which is kind of like narcissism and one is the ego of having no ego it's saying is the ego of having no ego it's saying oh look at how everyone else glorifies oh look at how everyone else glorifies themselves but look at how I don't themselves but look at how I don't glorify myself at all glorify myself at all like other people glorify themselves but like other people glorify themselves but I don't I don't so there's sort of like a subtle ego of so there's sort of like a subtle ego of look at how egotistical everyone else is look at how egotistical everyone else is look at how everyone else projects but I look at how everyone else projects but I don't I don't project don't I don't project I'm not egotistical I'm objective I'm

I'm not egotistical I'm objective I'm humble I'm devoted to the cause I'm pure humble I'm devoted to the cause I'm pure I can't I know that you're almost have I can't I know that you're almost have to go and that's why I want to respond to go and that's why I want to respond to this release in a very I do think to this release in a very I do think that a lot of the conversation that that a lot of the conversation that we've had like comes from you trying to we've had like comes from you trying to see yourself in me and a lot of it is see yourself in me and a lot of it is projection where you go through life in projection where you go through life in a more self-centered manner and you try a more self-centered manner and you try to find that framework in me while so to find that framework in me while so for example for the ego and these things for example for the ego and these things where parts in your life where you where parts in your life where you struggled with it a lot while for me all struggled with it a lot while for me all these things are very irrelevant like I these things are very irrelevant like I just go through life I wake up I do what just go through life I wake up I do what I gotta do when I go to bed it's very I gotta do when I go to bed it's very simple yeah and all these concepts and simple yeah and all these concepts and and this you know this like all my and this you know this like all my experience or my pastor stuff is experience or my pastor stuff is irrelevant to me it's like and it truly irrelevant to me it's like and it truly is like if you get to know me or you see

is like if you get to know me or you see me you would really be be a little bit me you would really be be a little bit confused like a why doesn't he care confused like a why doesn't he care about these things and because I was about these things and because I was confused up until this moment but yeah confused up until this moment but yeah go ahead a lot of a lot of what a lot of go ahead a lot of a lot of what a lot of your analyzes is filling the gaps with your analyzes is filling the gaps with your own experience which then your own experience which then automatically portrayed something where automatically portrayed something where you try to see you know you try to you try to see you know you try to conceptualize and and and see me as a conceptualize and and and see me as a you know from yeah from that angle while you know from yeah from that angle while I just live my life and accept things I just live my life and accept things for what they are and and and when I for what they are and and and when I experience discomfort I just take it and experience discomfort I just take it and I just you know go about my day and I just you know go about my day and that's it like there is no there is no that's it like there is no there is no focus on the self development or any of focus on the self development or any of that because at the end of the day we that because at the end of the day we are what we are and all these things are are what we are and all these things are not that you know are not that relevant not that you know are not that relevant when you when you want to eat you gotta when you when you want to eat you gotta eat and when you you know when you gotta

eat and when you you know when you gotta get water you get water things are get water you get water things are actually very same actually very same when you strip away all the all this all when you strip away all the all this all this noise and that's the way I live my this noise and that's the way I live my life and and and and there is very life and and and and there is very little to it like it's it's it's little to it like it's it's it's actually quite simple I'm just saying actually quite simple I'm just saying like I think a lot of the analyzing that like I think a lot of the analyzing that you're doing is coming from your you're doing is coming from your perspective and trying to understand me perspective and trying to understand me through your world which is yeah which through your world which is yeah which is which is which is not which is not as is which is which is not which is not as easy when when when when I go about life easy when when when when I go about life in a way where a lot of this identity in a way where a lot of this identity structure and construct just doesn't structure and construct just doesn't really exist because I know it's not really exist because I know it's not real sure so I thank you for explaining real sure so I thank you for explaining that positive way and this is not a that positive way and this is not a criticism I I didn't think it was a criticism I I didn't think it was a criticism at all are you getting the criticism at all are you getting the sense that I'm Crick I'm very glad so I sense that I'm Crick I'm very glad so I I've been very transparent with you I've been very transparent with you about what I think could be going on so

about what I think could be going on so for example I said like I think you have for example I said like I think you have this other kind of ego called the ego of this other kind of ego called the ego of having no eager I think that could be having no eager I think that could be going on because I can't really know you going on because I can't really know you after talking about an hour and a half after talking about an hour and a half right so I I think I think the way I'm right so I I think I think the way I'm approaching this conversation is by approaching this conversation is by trying transparently sharing my trying transparently sharing my impressions so that you can explain to impressions so that you can explain to me your perspective on it yes right and me your perspective on it yes right and so you've just explained to me that you so you've just explained to me that you think that when I toss something like think that when I toss something like that out at you that it is a projection that out at you that it is a projection from my end and in my experience yes from my end and in my experience yes many parts in the conversation but yes many parts in the conversation but yes yeah yeah yeah I I agree I'm simplifying yeah yeah yeah I I agree I'm simplifying things I'm losing some nuance so just things I'm losing some nuance so just one last thing that I would kind of one last thing that I would kind of leave with you is that often times and leave with you is that often times and you're when you're kind of talking about you're when you're kind of talking about me coming from my experience I me coming from my experience I completely agree I'm absolutely coming completely agree I'm absolutely coming from my experience now I don't know when from my experience now I don't know when you say my experience do you mean my you say my experience do you mean my personal psyche or my do you mean my personal psyche or my do you mean my experience in life experience in life your your experience in life okay so

your your experience in life okay so I'll show you with you just one last I'll show you with you just one last thing so generally speaking when I I'm a thing so generally speaking when I I'm a psychiatrist and when I deal with people psychiatrist and when I deal with people who have narcissism when their who have narcissism when their narcissism is challenged they will narcissism is challenged they will frequently go to things like projection frequently go to things like projection of the person who is challenging their of the person who is challenging their narcissism right so like if I tell you narcissism right so like if I tell you hey I think maybe you have this kind of hey I think maybe you have this kind of ego the simplest way for your that kind ego the simplest way for your that kind of ego to hide is to debunk or deep of ego to hide is to debunk or deep diffuse or challenge or pull the legs diffuse or challenge or pull the legs out of what I'm trying to say so you say out of what I'm trying to say so you say like oh like it's not really a problem like oh like it's not really a problem on my end you're just projecting which I on my end you're just projecting which I could be projecting I'm just sharing could be projecting I'm just sharing with you I'm not saying your with you I'm not saying your narcissistic or that you aren't I'm just narcissistic or that you aren't I'm just a question yeah so let's say I would a question yeah so let's say I would tell you you're a narcissist right yeah tell you you're a narcissist right yeah and you would start giving arguments and you would start giving arguments while you're not right no ah no no I while you're not right no ah no no I would ask you why do you think I'm a

would ask you why do you think I'm a narcissist I wouldn't start arguing with narcissist I wouldn't start arguing with you immediately I would ask you where you immediately I would ask you where your perspective comes from and help me your perspective comes from and help me understand why you think I'm a understand why you think I'm a narcissist but that so let's say that's narcissist but that so let's say that's I not what you do right you start I not what you do right you start arguing immediately and explaining to me arguing immediately and explaining to me why I'm wrong and how I'm all go a step why I'm wrong and how I'm all go a step further because like sure I'm not just further because like sure I'm not just asking you whether you're a narcissist I asking you whether you're a narcissist I say you are a narcissist because of this say you are a narcissist because of this and this and that and this and that right and you respond to this and this right and you respond to this and this and that and you say like yet this does and that and you say like yet this does not apply to me and then I tell you not apply to me and then I tell you that's what every narcissist would say yes what's your question say what you said let me ask you a question but I said let me ask you a question but I haven't heard a question well that's the haven't heard a question well that's the question if but that's it's not a question if but that's it's not a question well like what what what is question well like what what what is your what is your response to to to this your what is your response to to to this because it's like a basically a catch-22 because it's like a basically a catch-22 at that point it's like no it's not at that point it's like no it's not because because there's a problem with because because there's a problem with the assumption right so you said if I if

the assumption right so you said if I if I call you a narcissist and then you I call you a narcissist and then you said and then I say I give you evidence said and then I say I give you evidence and then you respond to that evidence if and then you respond to that evidence if you counter that evidence and then I say you counter that evidence and then I say but you're projecting I wouldn't do that but you're projecting I wouldn't do that I wouldn't I wouldn't do that middle I wouldn't I wouldn't do that middle step between me and you is different so step between me and you is different so when you say if you call me narcissus when you say if you call me narcissus I'm not going to respond to your I'm not going to respond to your evidence with evidence of my own I'm evidence with evidence of my own I'm gonna stop and ask you why you believe gonna stop and ask you why you believe that and help me and I'm going to that and help me and I'm going to understand where you're coming from and understand where you're coming from and why you believe that about me so that's why you believe that about me so that's the difference so if you if you if you the difference so if you if you if you don't let me I would if I would present don't let me I would if I would present you with three cases you either have you you with three cases you either have you know the ego of not having an ego or you know the ego of not having an ego or you have you know a strong ego or you have a have you know a strong ego or you have a weak ego right if that is the three weak ego right if that is the three points that I you know that I present points that I you know that I present and I say this is this is in this and I say this is this is in this framework you're either one of the three framework you're either one of the three right and I'm saying like oh no that is

right and I'm saying like oh no that is that is that is based on your experience that is that is based on your experience that you have these three you know these that you have these three you know these three properties and you don't see it three properties and you don't see it wider then I am the one giving a organ wider then I am the one giving a organ because it's very directly connected to because it's very directly connected to the reason why you said I wasn't the reason why you said I wasn't potentially a narcissist or or have ego potentially a narcissist or or have ego like and I'm telling you the reason why like and I'm telling you the reason why you only have these three options in you only have these three options in your explanation is because you're your explanation is because you're projecting your experience because if projecting your experience because if you would have a wider experience you you would have a wider experience you would have more versions than just these would have more versions than just these you're making you're making a couple of you're making you're making a couple of big assumptions so I do have other big assumptions so I do have other options in my tool belt I just simply options in my tool belt I just simply don't think that they apply to you right don't think that they apply to you right so I'm not talking to you about things so I'm not talking to you about things that I don't think apply to you then I that I don't think apply to you then I misunderstood that I thought yeah misunderstood that I thought yeah you you would I'm glad these these I'm you you would I'm glad these these I'm sure I'm sharing when I say here's what sure I'm sharing when I say here's what I think could apply to you Athene I'm I think could apply to you Athene I'm talking about the things that apply to

talking about the things that apply to you not all of the possibilities you you not all of the possibilities you were talking about your experience in were talking about your experience in India where you were talking to your India where you were talking to your teacher and he was mentioning these teacher and he was mentioning these three yeah so it was not in direct three yeah so it was not in direct correlation with me it was based on your correlation with me it was based on your own experience that's why I brought it own experience that's why I brought it up yeah so like I would assume if you up yeah so like I would assume if you would tell me about your experience would tell me about your experience which is not directly connected to me which is not directly connected to me that it would have all options and if it that it would have all options and if it would just be in in in context to would just be in in in context to talking to me you wouldn't even have to talking to me you wouldn't even have to mention all three you would just mention mention all three you would just mention one so then it's not so far-fetched for one so then it's not so far-fetched for me to assume that you were giving a full me to assume that you were giving a full scope of what you are trying to explain scope of what you are trying to explain based on your experience which then made based on your experience which then made me mention hey this is based on your me mention hey this is based on your experience that's what you call experience that's what you call projection basically I'm just saying projection basically I'm just saying like it's not like I'm trying to be you like it's not like I'm trying to be you know deflective on what you say I'm GRU know deflective on what you say I'm GRU was just trying to pinpoint to the was just trying to pinpoint to the argument you were giving me why you know

argument you were giving me why you know what why these things could be the case what why these things could be the case that's all like yeah I'm not yeah that that's all like yeah I'm not yeah that makes sense makes sense do you have I offended you in some way do you have I offended you in some way no not at all no not at all okay like honestly they're like I I know okay like honestly they're like I I know you're just trying to do what is best you're just trying to do what is best based on your own you know you're your based on your own you know you're your own reference frame and I try to have own reference frame and I try to have the best as well so to me I'm not the best as well so to me I'm not judging or blaming or whatever I just judging or blaming or whatever I just you know I just thought it was you know I just thought it was interesting to have a chat with you and interesting to have a chat with you and a call and because people in my in my a call and because people in my in my view were basically in your view base view were basically in your view base were really you know very very were really you know very very interested in listening to conversations interested in listening to conversations so I thought it would be interesting and so I thought it would be interesting and I completely agree man so can I offer I completely agree man so can I offer just a couple of other thoughts and then just a couple of other thoughts and then ask maybe one or two last questions so

ask maybe one or two last questions so first of all I think I I you know just first of all I think I I you know just for the sake of for the sake of I want to just repeat what I said I want to just repeat what I said earlier I do think that your cause is earlier I do think that your cause is Venu very genuine and that your approach Venu very genuine and that your approach is just and that you really believe in is just and that you really believe in what you're doing what you're doing in my experience so once again talking in my experience so once again talking about my reference frame which is really about my reference frame which is really the only reference frame I can come from the only reference frame I can come from that can coexist with the ego of having that can coexist with the ego of having no ego and in fact the people who are no ego and in fact the people who are the people who develop an ego of having the people who develop an ego of having no ego are the ones who are actually no ego are the ones who are actually doing the kind of work that you do so doing the kind of work that you do so it's very common amongst people like it's very common amongst people like monks and it's a very very subtle ego monks and it's a very very subtle ego that's very difficult to detect so that's very difficult to detect so whether that's going on with you or not whether that's going on with you or not I at the end of the day can't really say I at the end of the day can't really say but I'm noticing some signs that could but I'm noticing some signs that could point to that now whether that's the point to that now whether that's the case or not I'm not sure and I've sort case or not I'm not sure and I've sort of laid those out before and you can of laid those out before and you can kind of watch when I sort of talk about kind of watch when I sort of talk about how you end up making comparisons but how you end up making comparisons but you make overarching statements about you make overarching statements about truth of equality but when you actually

truth of equality but when you actually listen to what you say you make lots of listen to what you say you make lots of comparisons with other people and that comparisons with other people and that when you make those comparisons you sort when you make those comparisons you sort of treat them as a reality is a is of treat them as a reality is a is opposed to an opinion whether it's real opposed to an opinion whether it's real or not like I don't know some of that or not like I don't know some of that stuff actually sure like you can sort of stuff actually sure like you can sort of factually say that you know stuff went factually say that you know stuff went to charity or didn't go to charity but to charity or didn't go to charity but when it comes to like who emotionally when it comes to like who emotionally processes your dad's death the fastest I processes your dad's death the fastest I don't know how you would know that don't know how you would know that because I don't think there are any because I don't think there are any external signs that sort of course if external signs that sort of course if practically if I'm talking to my practically if I'm talking to my siblings like regularly I can see them siblings like regularly I can see them carrying it a much more heavily than I carrying it a much more heavily than I do for sure like some of my siblings in do for sure like some of my siblings in more than a year later are still more than a year later are still struggling with it like yeah so for me struggling with it like yeah so for me so yeah I mean that is that it's not in so yeah I mean that is that it's not in my I mean it's just not in my head it's my I mean it's just not in my head it's unless I can reason I can I'm unless I can reason I can I'm suppressing it there you go there you go suppressing it there you go there you go I don't think so but it is possible but I don't think so but it is possible but I I completely I completely agree that

I I completely I completely agree that you could be suppressing it you could be suppressing it you may not be suppressing it and that you may not be suppressing it and that it would be very hard for you to know it would be very hard for you to know because that's the nature of suppression because that's the nature of suppression right suppression is when our mind right suppression is when our mind buries something so that we're not aware buries something so that we're not aware of it that's the very definition of it of it that's the very definition of it so I'm really using so many emotions so I'm really using so many emotions when you passed away hi when you passed away hi these are even have experienced the these are even have experienced the emotions the emotional process because emotions the emotional process because like initially initially when it like initially initially when it happened I was the person to accept it happened I was the person to accept it the quickest like some people didn't the quickest like some people didn't like some of my siblings didn't even like some of my siblings didn't even accept that he passed away like it took accept that he passed away like it took in them days before they even realized in them days before they even realized that I think I really do not know enough that I think I really do not know enough about that situation so you know you about that situation so you know you were there you know what you experienced were there you know what you experienced you know what you saw you're gonna be you know what you saw you're gonna be the one who's who's best able to judge the one who's who's best able to judge what actually happened there's no way I what actually happened there's no way I can say all I'm saying is that I think can say all I'm saying is that I think exactly what you said which is that exactly what you said which is that there's a possibility possible yes that

there's a possibility possible yes that you suppress some kind of emotion you suppress some kind of emotion because I think the evidence suggests because I think the evidence suggests that you grew up in a household where a that you grew up in a household where a lot of children learn to suppress lot of children learn to suppress emotions ie playing with LEGOs while emotions ie playing with LEGOs while your brother is getting yelled at and your brother is getting yelled at and sometimes that leads to emotional sometimes that leads to emotional suppression I'm not saying it it did in suppression I'm not saying it it did in your case or that it happens now I just your case or that it happens now I just I don't know do you feel it I actually I don't know do you feel it I actually do not know I I don't know when it comes do not know I I don't know when it comes to you I really don't know I'm just to you I really don't know I'm just sharing with a bit I'm just in general sharing with a bit I'm just in general when you suppress emotions do you feel when you suppress emotions do you feel it in any shape or form yeah almost you it in any shape or form yeah almost you do feel it yeah because I don't feel it do feel it yeah because I don't feel it I'm just saying like what does I mean I'm just saying like what does I mean you can feel it feel it like emotionally you can feel it feel it like emotionally or physically or what in any shape or or physically or what in any shape or form is that anything yeah so good form is that anything yeah so good absolutely so I think the biggest sign absolutely so I think the biggest sign that you have suppressed or inactive that you have suppressed or inactive emotions is actually your ego so in my emotions is actually your ego so in my experience the ego arises is a experience the ego arises is a protective mechanism for emotions and protective mechanism for emotions and allows us to not feel the emotions so

allows us to not feel the emotions so I'll just give you an example like if I'll just give you an example like if I'm attracted to a woman and I asked her I'm attracted to a woman and I asked her out and she says no then my ego becomes out and she says no then my ego becomes active and I start coming up with all active and I start coming up with all kinds of justifications for why I asked kinds of justifications for why I asked her out and why she said no instead of her out and why she said no instead of just feeling the rejection so I'll start just feeling the rejection so I'll start to tell myself oh like objectively she's to tell myself oh like objectively she's not that attractive logically I just not that attractive logically I just asked her out for these reasons and then asked her out for these reasons and then what the ego does is it goes to your what the ego does is it goes to your intellect and hijacks the Intel intellect and hijacks the Intel because I'm sure you've observed that because I'm sure you've observed that when people become narcissistic you when people become narcissistic you can't logically convince them of can't logically convince them of everything because they are logically everything because they are logically convinced that they are absolutely convinced that they are absolutely correct that their intellect is not correct that their intellect is not functioning properly and is sort of like functioning properly and is sort of like functioning due to these things like functioning due to these things like projection and narcissism can they see projection and narcissism can they see themselves change I don't know it's an themselves change I don't know it's an abstract question I'm not sure I'm just abstract question I'm not sure I'm just sort of well because you were talking sort of well because you were talking about nice it depends on the person so

about nice it depends on the person so generally speaking when I point this out generally speaking when I point this out to them I think a lot of value comes to them I think a lot of value comes from it right so well this is this is from it right so well this is this is what I see that makes me think that you what I see that makes me think that you could have ego one is that you know it could have ego one is that you know it sounds like you live a life where sounds like you live a life where there's where people attack you in some there's where people attack you in some ways and generally speaking when I think ways and generally speaking when I think about that I imagine that at times in about that I imagine that at times in the past that sounds like that hurt the past that sounds like that hurt you're kind of okay with it now or that you're kind of okay with it now or that people say like slandering things about people say like slandering things about you you tend to be hyper focused on you you tend to be hyper focused on rationality logic and abstraction and rationality logic and abstraction and when we actually oh one second I'm sorry when we actually oh one second I'm sorry that it takes so long sorry I gotta get that it takes so long sorry I gotta get going yeah but that that I sort of see

going yeah but that that I sort of see you fitting this pattern whether it you fitting this pattern whether it applies to you or not I'm not sure but applies to you or not I'm not sure but that generally speaking a hyper that generally speaking a hyper rationality with abstraction and a lot rationality with abstraction and a lot of comparative statements without of comparative statements without believing you're making comparative believing you're making comparative statements or that your comparisons are statements or that your comparisons are objectively correct whereas other objectively correct whereas other people's opinions or just opinions or people's opinions or just opinions or projections speaks to me of the presence projections speaks to me of the presence of ego whether that's true or not I of ego whether that's true or not I don't know I mean I think the reason I'm don't know I mean I think the reason I'm sharing this with you is because I sharing this with you is because I respect you and I think you should respect you and I think you should reflect on it which is exactly what I reflect on it which is exactly what I think you're doing in what you will do think you're doing in what you will do and I think that's awesome that you're and I think that's awesome that you're doing that and I have one last question doing that and I have one last question for you so do you want to collaborate that was the goal of this conversation for you right so let me ask you well the for you right so let me ask you well the answer the answer to that question lies answer the answer to that question lies in you and the answer is do you like how in you and the answer is do you like how far do you want to go to truly help

far do you want to go to truly help people basically like and and the people basically like and and the conversation has shown me that you want conversation has shown me that you want to live a normal life and you want to to live a normal life and you want to help people on the side and combine them help people on the side and combine them both and basically in a sense settle both and basically in a sense settle with that and my question would be like with that and my question would be like yeah do you want to settle with that or yeah do you want to settle with that or do you want to take it further because do you want to take it further because you can maybe help even more because like for me that is that is the extent to which we can collaborate extent to which we can collaborate because of course we can collaborate in because of course we can collaborate in less or bigger extent but like the less or bigger extent but like the extent to which you want out of you know extent to which you want out of you know your comfort zone and really do good in your comfort zone and really do good in the world for a big part defines how the world for a big part defines how strong we can work together because of strong we can work together because of course we can have you know these talks course we can have you know these talks because people seem to really love it I because people seem to really love it I mean like look at the amount of people mean like look at the amount of people that are watching it's crazy like they that are watching it's crazy like they like they like this conversation you like they like this conversation you like to see you know stalking because

like to see you know stalking because it's very interesting so in that regards it's very interesting so in that regards that on itself could be interesting that on itself could be interesting because I like to talk to you it's not because I like to talk to you it's not like talking with destiny where it's like talking with destiny where it's really very very very sensational and really very very very sensational and yelling and all that stuff this is much yelling and all that stuff this is much more chill and people seem to like that more chill and people seem to like that and and it's hard to even find an and and it's hard to even find an interest for these type of conversations interest for these type of conversations so in that regards I think we can so in that regards I think we can definitely collaborate when it comes definitely collaborate when it comes down to practical action and do you know down to practical action and do you know like like charity work and stuff it's like like charity work and stuff it's something you know we we could we could something you know we we could we could explore in the future so I would say I explore in the future so I would say I wouldn't I wouldn't drop a no and and I wouldn't I wouldn't drop a no and and I wouldn't throw up a yes I think we can wouldn't throw up a yes I think we can you know we can definitely have a you know we can definitely have a follow-up conversation if that's follow-up conversation if that's something you feel like doing and I will something you feel like doing and I will definitely reflect on things you said definitely reflect on things you said and you can also do so if you think and you can also do so if you think there was anything worthwhile I think there was anything worthwhile I think there was a time that was worthwhile there was a time that was worthwhile yeah so yeah like and your viewers if yeah so yeah like and your viewers if they find it worthwhile because I also

they find it worthwhile because I also understand if you know it's not understand if you know it's not something for them that I'm not going to something for them that I'm not going to you know be this yeah this this guest you know be this yeah this this guest that they just go like okay again this that they just go like okay again this some of this and yeah maybe we can also some of this and yeah maybe we can also you know like in the future spice it up you know like in the future spice it up because I've been very I have been very because I've been very I have been very yeah like like we've been very what do yeah like like we've been very what do you call it surface it was a very you call it surface it was a very surface conversation and I do think if surface conversation and I do think if we go deeper things will become even we go deeper things will become even more interesting because it helps people more interesting because it helps people to understand intent and such and and to understand intent and such and and and help you thinking philosophically and help you thinking philosophically Sagan you be deeper philosophically no I Sagan you be deeper philosophically no I mean deeper psychologically really to mean deeper psychologically really to the foundation of what drives us to do the foundation of what drives us to do what we do and why we do it and and and what we do and why we do it and and and analyzing it in a way that people can analyzing it in a way that people can very easily relate to because comfort very easily relate to because comfort for example is a word everybody can for example is a word everybody can relate to it's very easy to wrap your relate to it's very easy to wrap your head around like oh yeah sure I'm trying head around like oh yeah sure I'm trying to you know settle and find comfort in

to you know settle and find comfort in what I'm doing what I'm doing it's easy to to get like people that it's easy to to get like people that procrastinate people you know that don't procrastinate people you know that don't procrastinate it's very common ground procrastinate it's very common ground yeah and and and and basically being yeah and and and and basically being able to simplify everything we talk able to simplify everything we talk about that sometimes kins can look about that sometimes kins can look complex on the surface like I mean this complex on the surface like I mean this conversation it sometimes was really all conversation it sometimes was really all like a little bit all over the place at like a little bit all over the place at the time the theme dude I really gotta the time the theme dude I really gotta go cuz I literally have a car that's go cuz I literally have a car that's waiting outside with my kids it's been waiting outside with my kids it's been here like if you're interested we can here like if you're interested we can definitely have another call and yeah definitely have another call and yeah like for me it was interesting I like to like for me it was interesting I like to have this chat do you get want to have this chat do you get want to collaborate more in the future I have no collaborate more in the future I have no idea what that means because you speak idea what that means because you speak in such philosophical and broad terms in such philosophical and broad terms that I like it would be if it would be that I like it would be if it would be having more of these kind of having more of these kind of conversations for example on the stream conversations for example on the stream yeah okay hold on one second I really yeah okay hold on one second I really got to go um I'm gonna say the same

got to go um I'm gonna say the same thing you said which is maybe not a yes thing you said which is maybe not a yes and not a no okay I just have and not a no okay I just have think about whether this is aligned with think about whether this is aligned with the kind of work that I'm trying to do the kind of work that I'm trying to do like I think it's done like I think it's done hey what's up yes I understand hey what's up yes I understand understood okay okay I'm coming love you understood okay okay I'm coming love you yeah let's do a theme okay I had to hang yeah let's do a theme okay I had to hang up on the dude cuz I I really got to run up on the dude cuz I I really got to run my kids are going insane it's cold my kids are going insane it's cold outside okay so let me just stop real outside okay so let me just stop real quick okay well talk about um I gotta go quick okay well talk about um I gotta go but I hope that wasn't rude to a theme I but I hope that wasn't rude to a theme I will apologize to him later anyway guys will apologize to him later anyway guys I thought I mean I thought that was I thought I mean I thought that was interesting you know we'll see I don't interesting you know we'll see I don't know if you guys are you know that was I know if you guys are you know that was I don't know how much of that was don't know how much of that was voyeuristic for you all but it really voyeuristic for you all but it really wasn't lawyer to stick for me I mean I'm wasn't lawyer to stick for me I mean I'm not trying to upset him or anything but not trying to upset him or anything but yeah so thank you guys for coming we're yeah so thank you guys for coming we're gonna stream on Sunday from 6 to 8 and

gonna stream on Sunday from 6 to 8 and we're gonna do like more Q&A and stuff we're gonna do like more Q&A and stuff but I really just like literally have to but I really just like literally have to run out of the room but love you guys run out of the room but love you guys thank you for everyone who showed up and thank you for everyone who showed up and yeah have a nice evening