A Realistic Approach to Purpose at Work w/ Mrs .K (Kruti) | MEMBERS' LIVESTREAM

Hello, I am Krii Kenogia. I'm Mrs. K. I run the Healthy Gamer Organization. It's run the Healthy Gamer Organization. It's so good to be hanging out with you guys so good to be hanging out with you guys today. I hear that there are some today. I hear that there are some questions and concerns on building a questions and concerns on building a meaningful career. So, I mentor a ton of meaningful career. So, I mentor a ton of people and obviously people and obviously Healthy Gamer is about 200 people now. Healthy Gamer is about 200 people now. So, I run a fairly large ship, a much So, I run a fairly large ship, a much larger than we ever thought it was going larger than we ever thought it was going to be. Um, and so I really wanted to to be. Um, and so I really wanted to kind of add some value to our members kind of add some value to our members program around career education in program around career education in particular. And I think what I've been particular. And I think what I've been hearing and seeing is a lot around um, hearing and seeing is a lot around um, finding purpose at work, building a finding purpose at work, building a meaningful career, having I think more meaningful career, having I think more of a meaningful job, a meaningful of a meaningful job, a meaningful dayto-day. So I would love to talk to dayto-day. So I would love to talk to you guys about that. I am trying to find you guys about that. I am trying to find the chat. Oh, hi. There you guys are. the chat. Oh, hi. There you guys are. Nice to see you guys. Nice to see you guys. Um,

Um, the first thing I like to do is to get a the first thing I like to do is to get a sense of like who exactly I'm talking sense of like who exactly I'm talking to. So, if you are currently employed, to. So, if you are currently employed, can you put one? If you are trying to can you put one? If you are trying to start your own thing, can you put two? start your own thing, can you put two? And if you are looking for a career, can And if you are looking for a career, can you put three? And if they all apply, you put three? And if they all apply, just do one, two, three. Currently just do one, two, three. Currently employed. Currently employed. One, two, employed. Currently employed. One, two, three. Two, and three. Bullet 13. I just three. Two, and three. Bullet 13. I just started a new job yesterday. started a new job yesterday. Congratulations. Happy first day. Second Congratulations. Happy first day. Second day. What are you doing? Shouldn't you day. What are you doing? Shouldn't you be at work? be at work? One, two. One, two. Okay. All right. So, One, two. One, two. Okay. All right. So, I see more people that are employed, I I see more people that are employed, I think. think. Um, some people looking to start their Um, some people looking to start their own thing and some people looking for a own thing and some people looking for a career. You're on lunch break. Awesome. career. You're on lunch break. Awesome. Let's go. Let's go fast then. I would Let's go. Let's go fast then. I would hate to keep you from your new gig. Um, hate to keep you from your new gig. Um, all right. So, I don't know if you guys all right. So, I don't know if you guys saw it's just because I live in mental saw it's just because I live in mental health world, but they recently codified

health world, but they recently codified this concept called moral injury this concept called moral injury because, and I wanted to share this with because, and I wanted to share this with you guys because I think this is a lot you guys because I think this is a lot of what the healthy gamer community in of what the healthy gamer community in general is feeling and I think it's general is feeling and I think it's really relevant um for this topic. So a really relevant um for this topic. So a big challenge that you guys have put big challenge that you guys have put forth is that your personal moral or forth is that your personal moral or spiritual values um kind of contrast spiritual values um kind of contrast with the practicality of your with the practicality of your profession. Is that the is that the profession. Is that the is that the aspect you guys want to drill in on aspect you guys want to drill in on today? today? Just y or n? If it's something else, we Just y or n? If it's something else, we can pivot. It's not too late. can pivot. It's not too late. All right. I'm going to assume that this All right. I'm going to assume that this is what you guys want to go with. is what you guys want to go with. um until somebody says stop abandon um until somebody says stop abandon ship. So a lot of what we're seeing ship. So a lot of what we're seeing right now is systematic right now is systematic moral injury meaning that the things moral injury meaning that the things that you are asked to do on a day-to-day

that you are asked to do on a day-to-day basis contradict with your personal basis contradict with your personal spiritual philosophical beliefs. So, if spiritual philosophical beliefs. So, if you're a healthare worker and you are you're a healthare worker and you are being told, you know, don't tell them being told, you know, don't tell them about their insurance, just run the about their insurance, just run the test, and you feel like, I'm not doing test, and you feel like, I'm not doing my patient a service by doing that. Um, my patient a service by doing that. Um, that would be moral injury. If you're a that would be moral injury. If you're a teacher and you're being asked to just teacher and you're being asked to just just teach the test, teach the test, and just teach the test, teach the test, and you're like, "No, I want to teach my you're like, "No, I want to teach my kids actually how to learn and how to kids actually how to learn and how to think and the subject matter." That think and the subject matter." That would be called moral injury. If you're would be called moral injury. If you're in mental health and um you're in mental health and um you're this is what I find so frustrating with this is what I find so frustrating with mental health is that people are not mental health is that people are not incentivized to make people better. Um incentivized to make people better. Um so like if you are a therapist and your so like if you are a therapist and your patient doesn't need you anymore, right? patient doesn't need you anymore, right? But it's in your best interest to keep

But it's in your best interest to keep this patient coming back and coming back this patient coming back and coming back coming back. coming back. it it's self-contradictory, right? Like it it's self-contradictory, right? Like your your that would be moral injury your your that would be moral injury because your economic necessity is to because your economic necessity is to keep that patient lingering around, but keep that patient lingering around, but your moral compass tells you you should your moral compass tells you you should let that patient go. That's why we do let that patient go. That's why we do 20week bundles, by the way. Um because 20week bundles, by the way. Um because we want to set a good expectation and we we want to set a good expectation and we don't want you hanging out forever if don't want you hanging out forever if that's not what you want to do. Um, that's not what you want to do. Um, so that's like the premise of moral so that's like the premise of moral injury. And a lot of patterns that we injury. And a lot of patterns that we see is people are in the wrong job where see is people are in the wrong job where like the job itself like the job itself has like day-to-day tasks that are moral has like day-to-day tasks that are moral injury. Um, some it's the career like injury. Um, some it's the career like it's the health care system that is the it's the health care system that is the moral injury. And some places it's the moral injury. And some places it's the boss like just not treating people well. boss like just not treating people well. and that can be another form of moral and that can be another form of moral injury. So, we wanted to kind of dive

injury. So, we wanted to kind of dive into this concept and really be um as into this concept and really be um as always more solutionoriented. Um it's a huge problem. Interesting. I think I might All right, cool. think I might All right, cool. I'm reading chat with one eye, so I'm reading chat with one eye, so if you ask questions in chat, I'll see if you ask questions in chat, I'll see them. them. So, the issue really is that in So, the issue really is that in different settings, people feel stuck or different settings, people feel stuck or compromised by the systems that you're compromised by the systems that you're part of. And I'll just share a little part of. And I'll just share a little bit about my background here. Um, I bit about my background here. Um, I worked in nonprofit marketing for a worked in nonprofit marketing for a couple of years. And I thought, you couple of years. And I thought, you know, I had worked on alcohol brands, know, I had worked on alcohol brands, financial service brands, um, financial service brands, um, like all sort like music and like all sort like music and entertainment. So, I'd worked on like entertainment. So, I'd worked on like these really fun, splashy brand these really fun, splashy brand campaigns and it was really fun like campaigns and it was really fun like promoting NFL and Verizon and Bikardi promoting NFL and Verizon and Bikardi and all that stuff. And at some point I and all that stuff. And at some point I was like, "Okay, it'd be cool if I could

was like, "Okay, it'd be cool if I could do this for a good cause." And so then I do this for a good cause." And so then I made a career change. Part of it was to made a career change. Part of it was to be closer to my partner. Um, so part of be closer to my partner. Um, so part of it was me wanting to move from New York it was me wanting to move from New York to Boston, but part of it was also let to Boston, but part of it was also let me find something more purposeful. me find something more purposeful. people don't need to be sold more people don't need to be sold more alcohol, more credit cards, more alcohol, more credit cards, more whatever. And so I started working with whatever. And so I started working with this agency that promoted, they were a this agency that promoted, they were a marketing agency for nonprofits and marketing agency for nonprofits and social enterprises. And I was like, social enterprises. And I was like, "This is going to be awesome. I'm going "This is going to be awesome. I'm going to get to apply everything that I've to get to apply everything that I've learned and help the animals and the learned and help the animals and the refugees and the whales and the refugees and the whales and the environment and environment and I don't know, educators and all sorts of I don't know, educators and all sorts of stuff." And in a lot of ways it was stuff." And in a lot of ways it was really fun and it did more align with my really fun and it did more align with my purpose, but in a lot of ways it didn't purpose, but in a lot of ways it didn't because what I was really doing was because what I was really doing was constantly soliciting donors for money. constantly soliciting donors for money. And I was like, okay, I'm not really

And I was like, okay, I'm not really working on the solution set here. I'm working on the solution set here. I'm just constantly banging on about giving just constantly banging on about giving Thursday and get your donation matched Thursday and get your donation matched and stuff like that. So, in the macro and stuff like that. So, in the macro sense, it should have been fulfilling, sense, it should have been fulfilling, but in the micro, in my day-to-day life, but in the micro, in my day-to-day life, I just felt like I was constantly asking I just felt like I was constantly asking people for money, and I hated that. So, people for money, and I hated that. So, you can have you can have something that looks shiny and looks something that looks shiny and looks like it'll be fulfilling without the like it'll be fulfilling without the day-to-day fulfillment. And this is an day-to-day fulfillment. And this is an important concept to separate too is important concept to separate too is sometimes we are more satisfied by our sometimes we are more satisfied by our day-to-day wins and sometimes we are day-to-day wins and sometimes we are more satisfied by the grandiosity by the more satisfied by the grandiosity by the big picture of I get to support this big picture of I get to support this mission or work on this cause. Um so mission or work on this cause. Um so like even at healthy gamer a lot of what like even at healthy gamer a lot of what keeps me engaged is not working in keeps me engaged is not working in mental health it's like the everyday mental health it's like the everyday stories and I think that's true for a

stories and I think that's true for a lot of the folks that work here. lot of the folks that work here. Um, Um, so if this is something that you're so if this is something that you're dealing with and you're trying to kind dealing with and you're trying to kind of find that purpose and that meaningful of find that purpose and that meaningful connection with your career and your connection with your career and your day-to-day, we're going to start going day-to-day, we're going to start going through a couple more concepts here. Um, through a couple more concepts here. Um, Trevor, is my volume okay? Am I doing Trevor, is my volume okay? Am I doing all right? all right? All right, cool. All right, so let me go All right, cool. All right, so let me go through. Do you mind flashing the moral injury um definition, please? Here we go. definition, please? Here we go. So, just as background, the American So, just as background, the American Psychological Association has recognized Psychological Association has recognized moral injury as a factor of mental moral injury as a factor of mental health and they've extended moral injury health and they've extended moral injury into the category of religious or into the category of religious or spiritual problem. spiritual problem. This basically means that like as This basically means that like as opposed to I'm, you know, there's never opposed to I'm, you know, there's never vegetarian options at work, they're

vegetarian options at work, they're extending extending somebody's world view to include clashes somebody's world view to include clashes with their career. Moral injury isn't newly categorized, but it it does recognize that it's a but it it does recognize that it's a important factor. So, you know, we bang important factor. So, you know, we bang on about this quite a bit that mental on about this quite a bit that mental health is more than mental illness. And health is more than mental illness. And this is kind of a step in that this is kind of a step in that direction. Um, where you don't have to direction. Um, where you don't have to have a pathology to just be like burnt have a pathology to just be like burnt out. Um, and moral injury is basically out. Um, and moral injury is basically trying to trying to separate a feeling of burnt outness from separate a feeling of burnt outness from like physical exhaustion. just being like physical exhaustion. just being drained at work, being asked to do too drained at work, being asked to do too much, being stressed without any kind of much, being stressed without any kind of end in sight to that stress end in sight to that stress to a burnout that is more philosophical, to a burnout that is more philosophical, more spiritual. more spiritual. Okay,

we talked a little bit about what moral injury is. Um, but just to recap the injury is. Um, but just to recap the three ways something is done against three ways something is done against your personal values. So, a soldier your personal values. So, a soldier having to kill or, you know, this could having to kill or, you know, this could be um be um one of my friends who is, you know, a one of my friends who is, you know, a labor and delivery nurse in Texas having labor and delivery nurse in Texas having to to work with women who are not allowed to work with women who are not allowed to terminate their pregnancies. Um, and terminate their pregnancies. Um, and like just the horrific things that she's like just the horrific things that she's seen there that women are being forced seen there that women are being forced to do. Um, to do. Um, so that could occur right there. so that could occur right there. one has failed to do something their own one has failed to do something their own values have demanded. So this is values have demanded. So this is something like, oh, I should have spoken something like, oh, I should have spoken up. I should have said something. I up. I should have said something. I should have acted differently. Um, should have acted differently. Um, this is I think a little bit more this is I think a little bit more situational than like systematic over situational than like systematic over and over being exposed to things that

and over being exposed to things that are like just personally against what are like just personally against what you want and then someone you trusted you want and then someone you trusted has completely abandoned those values. has completely abandoned those values. So this is something that we see like in So this is something that we see like in TV and movies a lot of times, right? TV and movies a lot of times, right? Where someone is brought in to fire Where someone is brought in to fire everyone and then in the end they get everyone and then in the end they get fired. It's just that like betrayal kind fired. It's just that like betrayal kind of thing. So we saw a lot of this over of thing. So we saw a lot of this over the last three years in TEG and gaming the last three years in TEG and gaming with a lot of layoffs and a lot of with a lot of layoffs and a lot of leaders really um being very frustrated leaders really um being very frustrated that they had to participate in those that they had to participate in those after driving so much value for their after driving so much value for their companies. Okay, any questions on moral injury or shall we move on? Okay, let's move on. Can we go to the case studies and some of the submitted questions? of the submitted questions? Whoops.

All right, so here are a couple of member submitted things. Oh, by the way, member submitted things. Oh, by the way, I was supposed to say something. I was supposed to say something. Um, thanks for the AOE. We love hearing Um, thanks for the AOE. We love hearing y'all's questions. We love being able to y'all's questions. We love being able to talk to you guys about the things that talk to you guys about the things that you're struggling with and we also you're struggling with and we also really love to connect your day-to-day really love to connect your day-to-day situational stuff to the content that situational stuff to the content that we're making. So, this is really fun for we're making. So, this is really fun for me and it was really great for um me and it was really great for um conversation with Subguru conversation with Subguru Monday. Monday. Uh, was it Monday? God, feel like I've Uh, was it Monday? God, feel like I've lived five lives since that lived five lives since that conversation. But um for the AOE healer conversation. But um for the AOE healer members who submitted their questions members who submitted their questions for Subguru, um thank you for those. And for Subguru, um thank you for those. And if you haven't seen that conversation, if you haven't seen that conversation, feel free to check it out if that's your feel free to check it out if that's your thing. To be clear, I'm not promoting thing. To be clear, I'm not promoting Subguru. I'm promoting Subguru. I'm promoting you guys being able to ask questions to you guys being able to ask questions to people like him um

people like him um whenever you want. whenever you want. Okie do. All right. So, one member Okie do. All right. So, one member submitted consumerism and materialism. submitted consumerism and materialism. Okay. Struggling with result-driven Okay. Struggling with result-driven commercial mindset within marketing, its commercial mindset within marketing, its impact on the world. Basically, this is impact on the world. Basically, this is how I felt. Just I was pushing more, how I felt. Just I was pushing more, more and more buy this thing, by this more and more buy this thing, by this thing, buy this thing. thing, buy this thing. This person is wanting to consider This person is wanting to consider switching to a more meaningful job in switching to a more meaningful job in marine cons conservation and it seems marine cons conservation and it seems crucial for the survival of the planet crucial for the survival of the planet but I'm struggling to know where I fit but I'm struggling to know where I fit in or how to possibly craft a job or in or how to possibly craft a job or spot for myself spot for myself as we have learned that sometimes a as we have learned that sometimes a fulfilling career means creating a fulfilling career means creating a custom mix for yourself. Feeling custom mix for yourself. Feeling paralyzed. Okay, cool. So, I love this paralyzed. Okay, cool. So, I love this question because it actually draws back question because it actually draws back to something we talked about a month or to something we talked about a month or two ago around that skill by experience two ago around that skill by experience matrix. So, if you want to switch matrix. So, if you want to switch industries, you want to take those industries, you want to take those transferable skills over for you and it

transferable skills over for you and it sounds like being a marketing person sounds like being a marketing person going into marine conservation, I fear going into marine conservation, I fear that you are going to end up asking for that you are going to end up asking for a lot of donations in your marketing, a lot of donations in your marketing, but maybe there's something broader but maybe there's something broader there. Maybe you're helping um marine there. Maybe you're helping um marine conservation organizations with their conservation organizations with their social media strategy or their content social media strategy or their content strategy or you're helping them get more strategy or you're helping them get more visibility with local organizations, visibility with local organizations, things like that. I think that can be things like that. I think that can be really, really, really fulfilling and really, really, really fulfilling and they really need all the help they can they really need all the help they can get. So, you know, be realistic in the get. So, you know, be realistic in the salary adjustments you might get because salary adjustments you might get because when you're working with donor-based when you're working with donor-based organizations as opposed to sales-based organizations as opposed to sales-based organizations, the pay differential organizations, the pay differential tends to be, I don't know, maybe 20 to tends to be, I don't know, maybe 20 to 30%. 30%. So, if that is doable to you, then by So, if that is doable to you, then by all means, do it. Um, I was talking to all means, do it. Um, I was talking to our former coaching director actually our former coaching director actually who made a change because she wanted to

who made a change because she wanted to use more of her like coding skill set use more of her like coding skill set than she was allowed to here or than she was allowed to here or empowered to here. We don't do a lot of empowered to here. We don't do a lot of coding, right? Um, and she volunteers at coding, right? Um, and she volunteers at an animal shelter now to kind of get her an animal shelter now to kind of get her purpose. So, if the pay cut is not a purpose. So, if the pay cut is not a possibility for you, then I would possibility for you, then I would consider volunteering. Um, there are a consider volunteering. Um, there are a lot of great marine conservation lot of great marine conservation organizations that do like cleanups and organizations that do like cleanups and walks and things that you go a long way walks and things that you go a long way for you to contribute there. Uh, can we go to the second scenario, please? I just feel like we're talking about ourselves at this point. Okay. ourselves at this point. Okay. Psychiatry versus spirituality. The Psychiatry versus spirituality. The first one was me. This one is all oak. first one was me. This one is all oak. Um I have an identity crisis. I feel Um I have an identity crisis. I feel like with psychiatry, I'm getting the like with psychiatry, I'm getting the knowledge and obligation to do something knowledge and obligation to do something that is in collision with my view of

that is in collision with my view of life and its meaning. On the other hand, life and its meaning. On the other hand, I'm not sure if I can see psychotherapy I'm not sure if I can see psychotherapy as a profession because there is no as a profession because there is no right answer and there maybe is. Who am right answer and there maybe is. Who am I to know as a medical doctor? So I feel I to know as a medical doctor? So I feel I have no true profession knowledge I have no true profession knowledge except that with which I have authority except that with which I have authority to isolate socially deviant people that to isolate socially deviant people that society cannot punish through legal society cannot punish through legal measures. measures. Yeah, I'm a bit jealous. Okay, Yeah, I'm a bit jealous. Okay, correct. Psychiatry itself is not going correct. Psychiatry itself is not going to give you all of the knowledge on what to give you all of the knowledge on what to do. What they are going to equip you to do. What they are going to equip you with is with is solutions to population health. and they solutions to population health. and they are going to say for this person do this are going to say for this person do this thing, for this person do this thing. I thing, for this person do this thing. I don't think psychiatry is claiming to don't think psychiatry is claiming to know all of the answers or to know the know all of the answers or to know the meaning of life or any of those things, meaning of life or any of those things, especially in a universally applicable especially in a universally applicable way. But what psychiatry and therapy can way. But what psychiatry and therapy can do really well together, is to support

do really well together, is to support holding that space for somebody. Um, and holding that space for somebody. Um, and a lot of people don't have a lot of people don't have anywhere they can explore that. So, you anywhere they can explore that. So, you know, obviously we try to offer it here, know, obviously we try to offer it here, but as a psychiatrist, um, but as a psychiatrist, um, you know, you can do a lot of good. Some you know, you can do a lot of good. Some a lot of people a lot of people are really struggling to find a the type are really struggling to find a the type of psychiatrist that can hold space for of psychiatrist that can hold space for that. The problem is the incentives a that. The problem is the incentives a lot of times, lot of times, meaning what insurance will pay for and meaning what insurance will pay for and things like that. But I think you know things like that. But I think you know if you're in that situation I think you if you're in that situation I think you can absolutely keep going and keep can absolutely keep going and keep exploring there. Okay. How can I someone who is very anti- capitalist survive within a deeply anti- capitalist survive within a deeply capitalist society workforce? Do I just capitalist society workforce? Do I just shut off my humanity and become numb to shut off my humanity and become numb to exploitation? Will industrial exploitation? Will industrial organizational psychology actually help

organizational psychology actually help me make an impact? I work in the me make an impact? I work in the manufacturing industry within the manufacturing industry within the education and training pillar of education and training pillar of industrial performance. A challenge I industrial performance. A challenge I constantly face is capitalism. I see hourly employees within the factory constantly treated like factory constantly treated like machinery, mandatory overtime, often machinery, mandatory overtime, often with less than 24-hour notice, reduction with less than 24-hour notice, reduction in vacation hours, in vacation hours, and poor management with weak and poor management with weak interpersonal skills. I was interested interpersonal skills. I was interested in pursuing a career in industrial in pursuing a career in industrial organizational psychology to help organizational psychology to help improve hourly workers lives by teaching improve hourly workers lives by teaching management how to listen, enact management how to listen, enact workplace cultural change, and hold workplace cultural change, and hold management accountable. management accountable. This feels like a lost cause given how This feels like a lost cause given how deeply capitalist the US is. I've also deeply capitalist the US is. I've also thought of petitioning for a labor union thought of petitioning for a labor union at my factory. Okay.

If you are inherently anti- capitalist and you try to approach and you try to approach a capitalist organization, a capitalist organization, for you to label yourself as anti for you to label yourself as anti the whole thing, the whole thing, it's going to be very difficult for you it's going to be very difficult for you to dialogue with somebody because you to dialogue with somebody because you need that person need that person to be pro- you. But if you're if you're to be pro- you. But if you're if you're anti- capitalist, anti- capitalist, you cannot expect the capitalist to be you cannot expect the capitalist to be so receptive to your message of like, oh so receptive to your message of like, oh yeah, I should be listening to these yeah, I should be listening to these hourly workers more. And you know, a lot hourly workers more. And you know, a lot of that the language Trevor, can you of that the language Trevor, can you flash that again? A lot of that language flash that again? A lot of that language was, I want to hold management was, I want to hold management accountable. I want to create a job that accountable. I want to create a job that will help me hold management accountable will help me hold management accountable or I want to create a labor union. or I want to create a labor union. It look it sounds to me like you're It look it sounds to me like you're looking for a fight

looking for a fight and you can fight, but I don't know that and you can fight, but I don't know that you can make a successful career out of you can make a successful career out of this. Like to me it sounds like it sounds like you have a couple of options. One is I would really identify options. One is I would really identify what the motivating factor is here. Is what the motivating factor is here. Is it this particular situation? it this particular situation? Is it the idea of workers getting taken Is it the idea of workers getting taken advantage of in general? Is it your advantage of in general? Is it your interest in organizational psychology? interest in organizational psychology? like what is it exactly? like what is it exactly? I would agree that it's a lost cause to I would agree that it's a lost cause to hold management accountable for their hold management accountable for their actions as an outsider, actions as an outsider, but I think you can get really good at but I think you can get really good at your job, become part of the other side your job, become part of the other side of it, and then set a better example.

It sounds like what this organization is struggling with struggling with is effective management within the is effective management within the factory because if people are getting factory because if people are getting yelled at, if there's last minute yelled at, if there's last minute schedule changes, if schedule changes, if people are doing mandatory overtime, it people are doing mandatory overtime, it sounds like the the system itself is not sounds like the the system itself is not efficient. So, I think there's a big efficient. So, I think there's a big opportunity to solve that as opposed to creating this like us versus them dynamic, which is honestly probably not dynamic, which is honestly probably not going to work unless you're very going to work unless you're very skilled, have a lawyer, and you want to skilled, have a lawyer, and you want to go looking for that fight, go looking for that fight, which if that's what you want, like I'm which if that's what you want, like I'm not here to tell you otherwise. But I not here to tell you otherwise. But I can tell you that that's a risky career can tell you that that's a risky career move. I don't know how Alec does this. I don't know how he just talks and talks and know how he just talks and talks and talks.

Okay. Before I started becoming a master social worker, I started watching your social worker, I started watching your channel to learn how to help people with channel to learn how to help people with mental health. mental health. Blown away by Vic psychology and how the Blown away by Vic psychology and how the east treats the mind. east treats the mind. Struggling to find a western theory that Struggling to find a western theory that feels anything like the east. DBT is feels anything like the east. DBT is similar. But I find myself being bored similar. But I find myself being bored of the western theories and coming back of the western theories and coming back to eastern psychology. The problem I am to eastern psychology. The problem I am facing is justifying to insurance facing is justifying to insurance companies my use of eastern psychology. companies my use of eastern psychology. Yeah. Okay. Yeah. Okay. When a lot of the cool stuff does not When a lot of the cool stuff does not have much research behind it. What have much research behind it. What should I do? You could practice these different modalities but they seem dull by modalities but they seem dull by comparison. Okay. comparison. Okay. So, insurance companies pay for therapy by the hour. So, you don't necessarily have the hour. So, you don't necessarily have to disclose exactly what modality you're to disclose exactly what modality you're using. So, if you want, your first

using. So, if you want, your first choice is choice is do you want to try to make it work with do you want to try to make it work with insurance companies? Yes or no. If you insurance companies? Yes or no. If you feel like that is what you have to do, feel like that is what you have to do, then you have to disclose to your then you have to disclose to your patients, right? like hey this is not patients, right? like hey this is not evidence-based this is not a accepted evidence-based this is not a accepted scientific theory but if you are scientific theory but if you are interested in this this is something I interested in this this is something I can explore with you so you can do those can explore with you so you can do those disclosures disclosures if you want to if you don't want to work if you want to if you don't want to work with with insurance companies then you with with insurance companies then you can kind of as long as you're within the can kind of as long as you're within the scope of your practice scope of your practice and you're going private then that's and you're going private then that's really you know you're taking out the really you know you're taking out the middleman so I would encourage you to go middleman so I would encourage you to go private for some private for some some patients, not in all. And you don't have to treat all patients the same. If you see that a all patients the same. If you see that a patient is really interested in this, patient is really interested in this, then you can have the disclosure then you can have the disclosure conversation with them.

Feeling unhome in academia. A student finishing masters to become a therapist finishing masters to become a therapist feels more and more unhome in academia feels more and more unhome in academia or CBT after being introduced to or CBT after being introduced to spirituality. spirituality. Okay. I initially wanted to become a Okay. I initially wanted to become a therapist but over the past years in uni therapist but over the past years in uni finishing your masters getting finishing your masters getting introduced to spirituality I feel more introduced to spirituality I feel more and more unhome in academia or CBT. and more unhome in academia or CBT. I would like to help bridge I would like I would like to help bridge I would like to help in bridging the dualities that to help in bridging the dualities that exist at the moment but this seems super exist at the moment but this seems super hard. hard. So I want to help and work in this area So I want to help and work in this area topic but at the same time I'm afraid I topic but at the same time I'm afraid I might burn out even though I know it's might burn out even though I know it's not my job alone to fix the world. Okay not my job alone to fix the world. Okay so this is this is skills by experience. so this is this is skills by experience. Okay you are you have no experience and Okay you are you have no experience and you are gaining your skills. Once you

you are gaining your skills. Once you start gaining some experience and start start gaining some experience and start flexing your skills, you will find your flexing your skills, you will find your way. I think this is one of those things way. I think this is one of those things where we're making we have questions and where we're making we have questions and we have uncertainty because we don't we have uncertainty because we don't have the experience yet and we don't have the experience yet and we don't have the skills yet. So, I would really have the skills yet. So, I would really invest in getting the skills under your invest in getting the skills under your belt, getting some experience under your belt, getting some experience under your belt and then come back to this belt and then come back to this question. This is not something you have question. This is not something you have to figure out right away. Um, Jen or Trevor, could you guys Jen or Trevor, could you guys put in chat the first career lecture put in chat the first career lecture that we did around skills and experience that we did around skills and experience just as a reference? Thank you. All right. Okay. So now we are going to go into a few more concepts around

go into a few more concepts around conflict at work. conflict at work. Right. Wait, do you want me to do that or do you want me to do the you want me to do the part one? The nature of conflict part one? The nature of conflict or you feel like we cover that?

No, you're fine. Okay. So, there are a couple of fundamental concepts in some couple of fundamental concepts in some of these questions that I wanted to of these questions that I wanted to point out. So point out. So in one of these questions we saw the in one of these questions we saw the person who wanted to represent the labor person who wanted to represent the labor force versus force versus the kind of entity the organization that the kind of entity the organization that he felt or she felt they felt were he felt or she felt they felt were mistreating the hourly workers. mistreating the hourly workers. So there's a destructive dynamic of So there's a destructive dynamic of employee versus employer, which is, you employee versus employer, which is, you know, I'm not here to tell you guys, you know, I'm not here to tell you guys, you know, just be good boys and girls and do know, just be good boys and girls and do whatever your boss says. That is not whatever your boss says. That is not that is not what I'm trying to say. that is not what I'm trying to say. There is a more effective There is a more effective way to affect change than going directly way to affect change than going directly up against whoever it is at work. So if up against whoever it is at work. So if you find yourself like where it's you find yourself like where it's teachers against administration or teachers against administration or nurses against the hospital or you know

nurses against the hospital or you know I don't know I feel like our world is I don't know I feel like our world is just in such chaos like a million like just in such chaos like a million like examples kind of pop to mind examples kind of pop to mind what you see even if you just look at what you see even if you just look at like you know what's going on like you know what's going on politically right now you just have politically right now you just have people fighting you just have like people fighting you just have like a city versus a state a state versus the a city versus a state a state versus the federal government. Like it's just federal government. Like it's just fighting and there can be fighting and there can be it's very hard to reach a happy like it's very hard to reach a happy like think about what would have to happen think about what would have to happen for this employee to be satisfied. for this employee to be satisfied. Think about what kinds of things what Think about what kinds of things what outcomes this person is looking for. outcomes this person is looking for. They're looking for management to take They're looking for management to take accountability for their actions. Then accountability for their actions. Then they're looking for um you know these they're looking for um you know these labor workers to kind of shift like labor workers to kind of shift like potentially unionize. These are big potentially unionize. These are big steps, right? So this is a lot of

this is a hard to please hard to win kind of game that this person is kind of game that this person is choosing to play. And I think that if choosing to play. And I think that if you change from us versus them, winners you change from us versus them, winners and losers, the zero sum mentality to a and losers, the zero sum mentality to a more problemolving approach, then you'll feel less like you're on the wrong team less like you're on the wrong team because you're going, and it's not just feeling, right? Like in choosing some of this language and in in choosing some of this language and in choosing to create an us versus them choosing to create an us versus them dynamic, you've now created two teams dynamic, you've now created two teams and you have positioned yourself on the and you have positioned yourself on the losing team. losing team. We're the ones being mistreated. We're We're the ones being mistreated. We're the ones being exploited. Like these are the ones being exploited. Like these are strong words to use. So as long as strong words to use. So as long as there's this antagonistic relationship there's this antagonistic relationship between an employer and an employee, you

between an employer and an employee, you have to pick a side and I would really I have to pick a side and I would really I see having to pick sides and force sides see having to pick sides and force sides as risky to an individual person's as risky to an individual person's career. So instead of that, I would take career. So instead of that, I would take a more problem-solving approach. Hey, it a more problem-solving approach. Hey, it looks like we're having a really hard looks like we're having a really hard time managing our schedules, keeping time managing our schedules, keeping morale high. I have some ideas. Would morale high. I have some ideas. Would you be willing to listen? I think having you be willing to listen? I think having more more of a collaborative approach, you have to of a collaborative approach, you have to kind of build trust with people and it kind of build trust with people and it it's really hard to do that if you come it's really hard to do that if you come in and say you're anti- capitalist or in and say you're anti- capitalist or you're pro this. those ideologies again you're pro this. those ideologies again like it's fine to have the ideologies like it's fine to have the ideologies but the way you present yourself at work but the way you present yourself at work the way that you come in with an identity of I am pro this or anti- that that is going to hold you

anti- that that is going to hold you back at work back at work if you're anything other than pro the if you're anything other than pro the success of the people at this success of the people at this organization Okay. There's also some systemic realities versus individual perceptions. realities versus individual perceptions. So employees often misattribute systemic So employees often misattribute systemic problems to their immediate employer. So problems to their immediate employer. So meaning like you know a nurse meaning like you know a nurse let me let me pick a good example maybe an education where teachers will be against the where teachers will be against the administration but the administration administration but the administration themselves themselves is accountable to the parents in the is accountable to the parents in the community. They are accountable to the community. They are accountable to the school district the school board. So

school district the school board. So when you pick your fights, sometimes when you pick your fights, sometimes you're picking the fight with the wrong you're picking the fight with the wrong person. person. Sometimes employers are facing what we call macroeconomic factors, right? That they're outside of factors, right? That they're outside of things that employers control. So a good things that employers control. So a good example of this, we talked a little bit example of this, we talked a little bit about the tech layoffs in 22 and 23. So about the tech layoffs in 22 and 23. So a good example of this was you know a good example of this was you know there were there was changes in the law. there were there was changes in the law. This is not well known or understood or This is not well known or understood or talked about. So there was a change in the law that basically punished companies that had basically punished companies that had large research and development expenses. large research and development expenses. So if you were managing So if you were managing a 100 engineers a 100 engineers then before this law passed everything then before this law passed everything you spent on that engineer was you spent on that engineer was considered research and development and considered research and development and you got a tax credit for all of that

you got a tax credit for all of that research and development spending. research and development spending. And then after the tax code changed you And then after the tax code changed you were you still had your tax credit but were you still had your tax credit but now you had a penalty as well. Now you now you had a penalty as well. Now you had to pay more on that money you were had to pay more on that money you were paying your developers. So what happened paying your developers. So what happened was all these companies were first was all these companies were first incentivized to spend spend spend spend incentivized to spend spend spend spend spend on developers and then all these spend on developers and then all these developer salaries like jacked up. This developer salaries like jacked up. This was over the pandemic and then this law was over the pandemic and then this law passed and everybody was like oh we passed and everybody was like oh we cannot spend this much money on cannot spend this much money on developers because instead of getting developers because instead of getting the credit now we're getting a hit too. the credit now we're getting a hit too. And then you saw a lot of people lose And then you saw a lot of people lose their jobs. you saw a lot of that their jobs. you saw a lot of that inflated salary come back down and then inflated salary come back down and then you had a lot of developers who had you had a lot of developers who had adjusted their kind of cost of living to adjusted their kind of cost of living to that higher salary no longer be able to that higher salary no longer be able to afford that lifestyle. afford that lifestyle. So,

So, you know, it's very easy to blame the you know, it's very easy to blame the employer for the layoff. They should employer for the layoff. They should have seen it coming. They shouldn't have have seen it coming. They shouldn't have planned so aggressively. They should planned so aggressively. They should have um been able to be more flexible. have um been able to be more flexible. They shouldn't have hired only to fire. They shouldn't have hired only to fire. they shouldn't have been recruiting for they shouldn't have been recruiting for these positions and then pull from them. these positions and then pull from them. They should be able to take the hit, They should be able to take the hit, whatever. I'm not saying any of that is whatever. I'm not saying any of that is false. I'm saying behind the employer's false. I'm saying behind the employer's action, there is a macro factor and it action, there is a macro factor and it is hard to keep your relationships is hard to keep your relationships within that company. If you are laid off within that company. If you are laid off or terminated or you have to leave your or terminated or you have to leave your position for whatever reason, position for whatever reason, you know, don't burn those bridges. Take you know, don't burn those bridges. Take those take that network with you. Take those take that network with you. Take those learnings with you. Take your kind those learnings with you. Take your kind of resume bullet points with you. Don't of resume bullet points with you. Don't set it all on fire because you think set it all on fire because you think that the employer shouldn't have done that the employer shouldn't have done this, they shouldn't have done that. this, they shouldn't have done that. Like screw all of you. If you do that, Like screw all of you. If you do that, you're throwing everything that you have you're throwing everything that you have gained at that position out the window.

gained at that position out the window. And for some people, again, like there And for some people, again, like there is a moral injury aspect to this. If if is a moral injury aspect to this. If if you say it is worth it, those people you say it is worth it, those people suck. burn it all. That's your choice. suck. burn it all. That's your choice. From a career progress From a career progress point of view, if my if my role here is point of view, if my if my role here is to help you build a fulfilling career, I to help you build a fulfilling career, I would not recommend that. If I'm your would not recommend that. If I'm your friend and you are saying screw them, friend and you are saying screw them, how do I take them down? I will be right how do I take them down? I will be right there with you try to plot. But that is there with you try to plot. But that is not what this lecture is. Whenever it's not what this lecture is. Whenever it's burn it down, how to burn it down, I burn it down, how to burn it down, I will talk about that. Crow is saying, "I always try to be a good boy e executing or leaving." I good boy e executing or leaving." I mean, we appreciate you so much, but I mean, we appreciate you so much, but I think you know, you you can tell when think you know, you you can tell when you are hiring somebody, you can tell you are hiring somebody, you can tell who burns the ground wherever they leave who burns the ground wherever they leave and who holds on to their relationships

and who holds on to their relationships and guess who gets the offer, right? and guess who gets the offer, right? Because the reality is okay so now we'll Because the reality is okay so now we'll talk a little bit about the employer's talk a little bit about the employer's perspective that people don't generally perspective that people don't generally hear so a lot of our actions are driven hear so a lot of our actions are driven by external pressures and what seems by external pressures and what seems malicious sometimes is just driven out malicious sometimes is just driven out of fear. So like HR as an example of fear. So like HR as an example a lot of people are just scared of their a lot of people are just scared of their work forces. If you look at like these work forces. If you look at like these healthc care administrators and stuff healthc care administrators and stuff like that, like they're scared. They like that, like they're scared. They have the like a hugely highly educated have the like a hugely highly educated workforce. They have doctors, nurses, workforce. They have doctors, nurses, social workers. Like these are masters, social workers. Like these are masters, PhD, like MD level educations. PhD, like MD level educations. They're scared of them. they the way They're scared of them. they the way that they run their businesses is like that they run their businesses is like if you look at some of these policies in if you look at some of these policies in your workplace, your workplace, you you can kind of tell what is created you you can kind of tell what is created out of fear as opposed to what is

out of fear as opposed to what is created out of a desire to empower the created out of a desire to empower the professionals in your workplace. professionals in your workplace. So don't be someone that your company So don't be someone that your company needs to be afraid of. needs to be afraid of. All right. Um, All right. Um, so let's see there are a couple bullet points here that I want to go through from an that I want to go through from an employer's perspective. So the reality employer's perspective. So the reality of business operations, um, a lot of employees are unaware of operational timelines that matter to operational timelines that matter to companies. So this is why you might not companies. So this is why you might not get the bonus or the raise that you were get the bonus or the raise that you were looking for. this is why your company looking for. this is why your company might not be ready to promote yet. So might not be ready to promote yet. So the way that they budget is inherently the way that they budget is inherently slow. You set a budget every year and slow. You set a budget every year and like we we're late. We do things late. like we we're late. We do things late. Um so we are planning 2026 now. So the

Um so we are planning 2026 now. So the time to ask for a raise or a promotion time to ask for a raise or a promotion things like that is generally now. It is things like that is generally now. It is the end of Q3 start of Q4. the end of Q3 start of Q4. This is when you are supposed to be This is when you are supposed to be having this talk with your employer. having this talk with your employer. Hey, by the end of next year, I would Hey, by the end of next year, I would really like to be in this position. So, really like to be in this position. So, what can I do over the next 12 months to what can I do over the next 12 months to make you really confident that this is make you really confident that this is the right move for me? Um, the right move for me? Um, if you are at a company, so if you are at a company, so your job your job is to be budgeted for. You want your is to be budgeted for. You want your manager to say, "Hey, this person is manager to say, "Hey, this person is going to grow into this title. They're going to grow into this title. They're going to grow into this title because going to grow into this title because they're going to be taking on this they're going to be taking on this additional responsibility. They're going additional responsibility. They're going to take on this additional to take on this additional responsibility because they can deliver responsibility because they can deliver results. I know that they can deliver results. I know that they can deliver results because look at all the results because look at all the that they did. I am going to ask them to that they did. I am going to ask them to deliver results on X so that by Q1 next

deliver results on X so that by Q1 next year I can say to my management team year I can say to my management team this person has delivered these results. this person has delivered these results. I want them taking on more I want them taking on more responsibility. I think we should responsibility. I think we should promote them to this position and promote them to this position and deliver Y increase to them. Nobody gives deliver Y increase to them. Nobody gives a budget or a promotion just to give it a budget or a promotion just to give it unless you know your company is on like unless you know your company is on like we do 3% um we do 3% um cost of living adjustments if we can cost of living adjustments if we can yeartoear and that's like regardless of yeartoear and that's like regardless of performance but if you are a performance but if you are a performance-based employee and you are performance-based employee and you are looking for a raise or a promotion you looking for a raise or a promotion you cannot just say oh other people in my cannot just say oh other people in my role get paid x or y and I should be too role get paid x or y and I should be too because it's you know your employer is because it's you know your employer is going to say, "Yeah, but those people going to say, "Yeah, but those people have responsibilities that look like A have responsibilities that look like A or B, and you're only doing C, right? or B, and you're only doing C, right? Don't make it about that. It has to be Don't make it about that. It has to be about what you deliver to the company."

about what you deliver to the company." And budget cycles are slow. So, I know And budget cycles are slow. So, I know people get frustrated. I've been here people get frustrated. I've been here for 3 years and I haven't gotten a raise for 3 years and I haven't gotten a raise or whatever the case might be. And it's or whatever the case might be. And it's not that that is wrong. It's that you not that that is wrong. It's that you have to address it on the budgeting have to address it on the budgeting cycle. So cycle. So PSA PSA ask now to your manager this question. ask now to your manager this question. Hey I am really looking to grow in my Hey I am really looking to grow in my role here. I want to hopefully in 12 role here. I want to hopefully in 12 months show you that the right role for months show you that the right role for me would be this. I think I would like me would be this. I think I would like to work on these types of projects. What to work on these types of projects. What do you think I should do to make my case do you think I should do to make my case to you that this should be my title and to you that this should be my title and salary? salary? and help create that dialogue. What are and help create that dialogue. What are the results they're looking to drive, the results they're looking to drive, etc., etc. And then figure out, you etc., etc. And then figure out, you know, this is a this topic is purpose. know, this is a this topic is purpose. Figure out if that is on purpose for

Figure out if that is on purpose for you. If so, awesome. If not, this is the you. If so, awesome. If not, this is the time to have that dialogue. Oh, great question in chat from Solar. I've hit a weird point in my from Solar. I've hit a weird point in my career where I don't really want a raise career where I don't really want a raise or promotion. I just want more free time or promotion. I just want more free time away from work. How do I ask or search away from work. How do I ask or search for something like that? for something like that? I love this question because I love this question because first of all, very relatable and second, first of all, very relatable and second, this hits on what our motivators are, this hits on what our motivators are, right? So it sounds like you are right? So it sounds like you are intrinsically motivated. You don't intrinsically motivated. You don't necessarily want the title. You don't necessarily want the title. You don't necessarily want the big bonus. You're necessarily want the big bonus. You're not necessarily looking for more not necessarily looking for more responsibility. You don't need these responsibility. You don't need these external things. What you care about is external things. What you care about is your own time. your own time. So if you are not somebody So if you are not somebody exttrinsically motivated and you want to

exttrinsically motivated and you want to find your own stuff, then it's all about find your own stuff, then it's all about making sure that your employer knows, making sure that your employer knows, hey, I'm really happy here. I love doing hey, I'm really happy here. I love doing this. This is great. I found I feel like this. This is great. I found I feel like I found a good rhythm. What do you think I found a good rhythm. What do you think about me taking a few more hours out of about me taking a few more hours out of the office? I think I can get everything the office? I think I can get everything done. What do you think about me having done. What do you think about me having shorter work days, Thursdays and shorter work days, Thursdays and Fridays? Fridays? I think that would be very approachable. Cool. Um, well, maybe now's a good time to kind of break down intrinsic versus to kind of break down intrinsic versus exttrinsic motivation. I have a little exttrinsic motivation. I have a little quiz I want you guys to take just to quiz I want you guys to take just to help you understand kind of where you help you understand kind of where you might be. might be. Trevor, can you pull up the intrinsic Trevor, can you pull up the intrinsic versus exttrinsic like little chart? Thank you. My hair is dry. Sorry. Started this

My hair is dry. Sorry. Started this lecture right out of the shower. lecture right out of the shower. Okie do. Let's start with this one with the simpler one. simpler one. Um Um, oh, you're very welcome. I love being here you're very welcome. I love being here with you guys. Okay, so job satisfaction with you guys. Okay, so job satisfaction can come from one of two places. can come from one of two places. And if you're very, very lucky, both. And if you're very, very lucky, both. Um, and by lucky, I mean work really Um, and by lucky, I mean work really hard, put yourself out there, and create hard, put yourself out there, and create the right circumstances to be lucky. the right circumstances to be lucky. So job satisfaction is either intrinsic So job satisfaction is either intrinsic or exttrinsic or both. So for intrinsic, or exttrinsic or both. So for intrinsic, this is the job itself. Um I'm an ER this is the job itself. Um I'm an ER doctor. I love helping people in acute doctor. I love helping people in acute stress. I hate doing follow-up charts. I

stress. I hate doing follow-up charts. I don't want to take my work home with me, don't want to take my work home with me, but I really like making a difference um but I really like making a difference um in my day-to-day work. So the job itself in my day-to-day work. So the job itself can be extremely rewarding. Um, it can can be extremely rewarding. Um, it can be achievement, right? Where you want be achievement, right? Where you want that that you want that next promotion. I need you want that next promotion. I need that I I want to be vice president. Like that I I want to be vice president. Like I don't care what it is, what company, I I don't care what it is, what company, I want that VP title. Some people want that VP title. Some people definitely um are achievementoriented. I definitely um are achievementoriented. I was achievementoriented. I wanted to was achievementoriented. I wanted to make, you know, $100,000 a year salary make, you know, $100,000 a year salary by the time I was 25. Like that was my by the time I was 25. Like that was my goal. like by the time I'm 25 I should goal. like by the time I'm 25 I should be making a six figure salary. This is be making a six figure salary. This is also my dad in my head but you know it also my dad in my head but you know it was like achievementoriented was like achievementoriented um I want to marry a doctor like stuff um I want to marry a doctor like stuff like that like that recognition. So some people are really recognition. So some people are really they love being out in they love being out in the marketplace as like a thought the marketplace as like a thought leader. We call them influencers now. We

leader. We call them influencers now. We used to call them thought leaders but used to call them thought leaders but they want to essentially be the they want to essentially be the ambassador. They want to um be at the ambassador. They want to um be at the conferences. They want to go and conferences. They want to go and represent their companies. They want to represent their companies. They want to do the speaking panels. They want to do the speaking panels. They want to write the editorials. They want the write the editorials. They want the recognition and the kind of outward recognition and the kind of outward recognition of their recognition of their intellect, their capabilities, their intellect, their capabilities, their ability, their their skill or their ability, their their skill or their experience. Um, some people are really experience. Um, some people are really recognitionoriented. recognitionoriented. Um, exttrinsic satisfaction would come Um, exttrinsic satisfaction would come from your working conditions. I want a from your working conditions. I want a nice office. I want the corner office or nice office. I want the corner office or um, you know, I I want this kind of time um, you know, I I want this kind of time away away every so often. Things like that. Like I every so often. Things like that. Like I want to control the way that I work. want to control the way that I work. Um, supervision. Some people really love Um, supervision. Some people really love the ability to mentor other people.

the ability to mentor other people. to really like lead the team that they to really like lead the team that they are the ones in charge and then of are the ones in charge and then of course social climate like they want to course social climate like they want to work on the things that they care about. work on the things that they care about. Okay, so now this gets broken down Okay, so now this gets broken down slightly more complexity. slightly more complexity. Irish dot I see your question. I'll get Irish dot I see your question. I'll get to you. I promise. to you. I promise. So, this is a self-determination So, this is a self-determination continuum, which um I'm not super super continuum, which um I'm not super super familiar with this, but it basically familiar with this, but it basically breaks things down into two breaks things down into two polar opposites. You have a motivation. polar opposites. You have a motivation. I don't care about anything, anyone, I don't care about anything, anyone, anything. anything. Intrinsic motivation. I know exactly Intrinsic motivation. I know exactly what I want. I know exactly what I want what I want. I know exactly what I want to be. I am full. I'm chasing to be. I am full. I'm chasing fulfillment. I am chasing purpose. I fulfillment. I am chasing purpose. I want to be inherently satisfied with how want to be inherently satisfied with how I spend my time. I spend my time. And then in between is extrinsic And then in between is extrinsic motivation. There it's just shades of motivation. There it's just shades of how external or internal you're

how external or internal you're regulated. Um so there's regulated. Um so there's it's not that complicated. It just looks it's not that complicated. It just looks kind of insane. So a motivation I would kind of insane. So a motivation I would say a good percentage of the healthy say a good percentage of the healthy gamer community is gamer community is strictly here. They're facing kind of a strictly here. They're facing kind of a complete complete lack of purpose, lack of meaning. And lack of purpose, lack of meaning. And it's usually because they've tried, it's usually because they've tried, they've tried, they've tried, nothing is they've tried, they've tried, nothing is working, and the macro environment working, and the macro environment around them is so chaotic that they around them is so chaotic that they can't figure out where to plug in. And can't figure out where to plug in. And then this moral injury concept comes then this moral injury concept comes into play where like they don't want to into play where like they don't want to be part of the problem. Anything that I be part of the problem. Anything that I do to create purpose in my life do to create purpose in my life just means that I'm on the wrong side of just means that I'm on the wrong side of things. things. So this is where our coaching program So this is where our coaching program really shines. And then there's really shines. And then there's self-determined. self-determined. Um this is you guys, right? This is you Um this is you guys, right? This is you guys are looking for more purpose,

guys are looking for more purpose, enjoyment, time. enjoyment, time. Your life is not all about work. You Your life is not all about work. You want your work to line up with your want your work to line up with your life. Okay? And then there is everything life. Okay? And then there is everything in between. Most people that are in the in between. Most people that are in the green green have have regressive movement back into regressive movement back into these colored zones based on frankly how these colored zones based on frankly how much they're paid. It is expensive as to much they're paid. It is expensive as to be internally motivated, right? Like you be internally motivated, right? Like you are giving up a lot of income potential. are giving up a lot of income potential. You're giving up um you're choosing not You're giving up um you're choosing not to compete on certain things that to compete on certain things that everybody else is competing on. So a lot everybody else is competing on. So a lot of us end up back in this exttrinsic of us end up back in this exttrinsic motivation where you do have the motivation where you do have the economic reality of needing the economic reality of needing the promotion, needing the job, needing the promotion, needing the job, needing the title. All right, so title. All right, so we have a quiz for you guys. we have a quiz for you guys. that we're going to link. And I'm going that we're going to link. And I'm going to take a quick break and give you guys

to take a quick break and give you guys a few minutes to do the quiz and then we a few minutes to do the quiz and then we will um pick up in like 3 minutes. This is what the quiz looks like. Can we link it in chat, please? link it in chat, please? Thank you. Okay, BRB, you scored high on everything. No, that's not bad. It just tells you where that's not bad. It just tells you where you're at. All right, while you guys are you're at. All right, while you guys are finishing up, um I wanted to take Irish finishing up, um I wanted to take Irish dot's question here. I'm in my final dot's question here. I'm in my final year of university and I've start I have year of university and I've start I have to start thinking of careers. I gave up to start thinking of careers. I gave up work to raise the kids over 18 years ago work to raise the kids over 18 years ago and I'm a bit stressed out about today's and I'm a bit stressed out about today's work environment. work environment. Congratulations on raising your kids. Congratulations on raising your kids. Um, that's not an easy thing to do and I Um, that's not an easy thing to do and I can totally understand why getting into can totally understand why getting into today's work environment would be a today's work environment would be a little daunting.

Most employers right now, I think, would see somebody like you and see somebody like you and question your experience level. question your experience level. Um, Um, so I think as long as you are going in so I think as long as you are going in saying, "Hey, I'm really experienced in saying, "Hey, I'm really experienced in this, but you're not stuck in the way this, but you're not stuck in the way things were done 18 years ago and you things were done 18 years ago and you can kind of show that you've adapted, can kind of show that you've adapted, but you've got sound fundamentals, but you've got sound fundamentals, but you and you've learned, right? but you and you've learned, right? You've you're able to adapt to whatever You've you're able to adapt to whatever things are going on now that are new. I things are going on now that are new. I think you're going to be okay. Um think you're going to be okay. Um there's a lot of concern around AI there's a lot of concern around AI replacing work. So I would not looking replacing work. So I would not looking at I would not at I would not look at something that is super look at something that is super processoriented or managementoriented. processoriented or managementoriented. Um because I think those careers are Um because I think those careers are probably going to be the first to go.

probably going to be the first to go. Anything that's like QA or kind of Anything that's like QA or kind of customer service, things like that, customer service, things like that, those are those are kind of on the way those are those are kind of on the way out. out. but things that are essentially but things that are essentially how do you get the most out of a team? how do you get the most out of a team? Um, and that's where the intrinsic like Um, and that's where the intrinsic like really understanding intrinsic versus really understanding intrinsic versus exttrinsic rewards can really help your exttrinsic rewards can really help your career. It'll help you personally, but career. It'll help you personally, but it'll also help your career because then it'll also help your career because then you can look at your colleagues and you you can look at your colleagues and you can say this is somebody that is motiv can say this is somebody that is motiv motivated by recognition. Shout out to motivated by recognition. Shout out to that person in this meeting. Thank you that person in this meeting. Thank you for your part in this project. and that for your part in this project. and that person gets their recognition. That person gets their recognition. That person's happy. That person is somebody person's happy. That person is somebody that you can work well with for the rest that you can work well with for the rest of your time there. Um, of your time there. Um, somebody that you can identify this is somebody that you can identify this is somebody that really just wants their somebody that really just wants their time back. Like, I'm going to help them time back. Like, I'm going to help them be efficient. I'm not going to bother be efficient. I'm not going to bother them with too much detail. And I'm going them with too much detail. And I'm going to say, "Hey, it's time for your part in

to say, "Hey, it's time for your part in this project. Here's everything you need this project. Here's everything you need to know. I know that time is precious to to know. I know that time is precious to you. So, I thought I'd save you a little you. So, I thought I'd save you a little time and do this. That is somebody that time and do this. That is somebody that you can develop a great working you can develop a great working relationship with. So, understanding relationship with. So, understanding what it is that rewards people um what it is that rewards people um or motivates people is really going to or motivates people is really going to help you in your professional help you in your professional relationships. Let me ask about the quiz relationships. Let me ask about the quiz interpretations and get right back to interpretations and get right back to you, you, Jing. How are they supposed to Jing. How are they supposed to understand these results? I'm gonna ask understand these results? I'm gonna ask you to put that in chat. you to put that in chat. Okay. Thank you. All right. Jing is Okay. Thank you. All right. Jing is going to break down the quiz for you going to break down the quiz for you guys more. Phil, if you can give me a guys more. Phil, if you can give me a little bit more Sorry to freak y'all little bit more Sorry to freak y'all out. I'm just on Alex's computer, so out. I'm just on Alex's computer, so it's me me typing to Phil. Um, it's me me typing to Phil. Um, can you give me a little bit more detail can you give me a little bit more detail because I think you're trying to balance because I think you're trying to balance a lot of things here. a lot of things here. Solar went from intrinsic motivation to Solar went from intrinsic motivation to external regulation via the quiz. See,

external regulation via the quiz. See, this this could be an insight. Look, this this could be an insight. Look, it's just a quiz, okay? But it could be it's just a quiz, okay? But it could be a good insight for you to make sure that a good insight for you to make sure that you really are capturing everything you really are capturing everything or what a lot of people will ask like, I or what a lot of people will ask like, I just need more time off. And then you just need more time off. And then you give them the time off and that's not give them the time off and that's not enough. Or people will say, I really enough. Or people will say, I really think that things should work this way think that things should work this way and you make the adjustment, things are and you make the adjustment, things are now working that way. And then there's now working that way. And then there's something else. So, I'm just saying it something else. So, I'm just saying it could be an interesting insight into the could be an interesting insight into the things like this almost be careful what things like this almost be careful what you wish for kind of situation. you wish for kind of situation. So, on the one hand, you have what we So, on the one hand, you have what we call like the bill payer. So, this is call like the bill payer. So, this is somebody who says, "Hey, I make a great somebody who says, "Hey, I make a great living. I get to live the life that I living. I get to live the life that I want. Um, and my job is fine. It's good want. Um, and my job is fine. It's good enough. It's not amazing, but that's not enough. It's not amazing, but that's not what my end all beall is. I'm here to what my end all beall is. I'm here to just kind of live my life. Then we have just kind of live my life. Then we have the soul feeder who says, "Okay, I

the soul feeder who says, "Okay, I really crave meaning and purpose in my really crave meaning and purpose in my life. I may or may not get it at work. life. I may or may not get it at work. So, I have side projects, volunteering, So, I have side projects, volunteering, art, community roles, things like that. art, community roles, things like that. And then we have something that we call And then we have something that we call the core where really living their the core where really living their purpose dayto-day purpose dayto-day really matters. And this can be in their really matters. And this can be in their personal relationships. This can be in personal relationships. This can be in like the daily work itself. This can be like the daily work itself. This can be the association with the larger the association with the larger organization. This can be just being organization. This can be just being around inspiring fun people and getting around inspiring fun people and getting things done. There are a number of ways things done. There are a number of ways that people will def derive this. And that people will def derive this. And for some people that's a non-negotiable. for some people that's a non-negotiable. Now, it's not always like that your Now, it's not always like that your whole career. Most people, I think, come whole career. Most people, I think, come in saying billpayer. Like, I don't care in saying billpayer. Like, I don't care what it is I do. This is the type of what it is I do. This is the type of life that I'm trying to build for life that I'm trying to build for myself. I need something that pays the myself. I need something that pays the bills. And then they kind of graduate bills. And then they kind of graduate into a soul feeder. Okay, got my life. I

into a soul feeder. Okay, got my life. I need to add a little bit of soul to what need to add a little bit of soul to what I'm doing. Let me start adding some side I'm doing. Let me start adding some side projects, volunteering. Um, volunteering projects, volunteering. Um, volunteering can be super fun and then meeting other can be super fun and then meeting other volunteers. Anyway, so those are the volunteers. Anyway, so those are the three kind of different mixes, right? three kind of different mixes, right? where first you're starting off just where first you're starting off just with a financial goal, then you add a with a financial goal, then you add a little bit to it, and then you say, little bit to it, and then you say, "Okay, I have a chance now to kind of "Okay, I have a chance now to kind of build the career I want." And I really build the career I want." And I really want to focus on I really think you got want to focus on I really think you got to narrow it down. Okay? Not everything to narrow it down. Okay? Not everything is perfect. You got to focus on whether is perfect. You got to focus on whether the organization itself matters the the organization itself matters the most, the people around you matter the most, the people around you matter the most, or the day-to-day work matters the most, or the day-to-day work matters the most. You're not going to have all three most. You're not going to have all three all the time. Okay? So this is why all the time. Okay? So this is why people will kind of work with the same people will kind of work with the same cluster of people because wherever they cluster of people because wherever they are, they know that they will do good are, they know that they will do good work, get things done, and like not have work, get things done, and like not have to deal with a lot of to deal with a lot of honestly. And sometimes the absence of a honestly. And sometimes the absence of a negative is good enough. Okay. Sometimes negative is good enough. Okay. Sometimes just not having shitty people and shitty

just not having shitty people and shitty managers can be like a good building managers can be like a good building block. All right. Still can't see me, block. All right. Still can't see me, huh? He's trying to bring it back. So huh? He's trying to bring it back. So we'll see what happens. All right. we'll see what happens. All right. Trying to rehat here, too. How can you Trying to rehat here, too. How can you differentiate what's most important of differentiate what's most important of the three? Obviously, it shifts, but how the three? Obviously, it shifts, but how can you prioritize? I almost think of can you prioritize? I almost think of this as hierarchy of needs, gray, where this as hierarchy of needs, gray, where like, you know, you can be rescuing like, you know, you can be rescuing small kittens all day, but if like you small kittens all day, but if like you aren't able to pay your bills and like aren't able to pay your bills and like get some financial freedom, you know, get some financial freedom, you know, you have to kind of start there and then you have to kind of start there and then you can add outside ways for meaning and you can add outside ways for meaning and purpose. And then you can start purpose. And then you can start prioritizing. To me, I always prioritize prioritizing. To me, I always prioritize the people that I work with because you the people that I work with because you can work at a hospital or an animal can work at a hospital or an animal shelter or whatever. And like if the shelter or whatever. And like if the people you work with suck, like it people you work with suck, like it doesn't matter how many kittens you doesn't matter how many kittens you rescue or babies you deliver or rescue or babies you deliver or whatever, like you're going to get whatever, like you're going to get beaten down, right? Just by the nature beaten down, right? Just by the nature of the people around you. And that's why

of the people around you. And that's why volunteering can be great because you'll volunteering can be great because you'll meet like-minded people and then your meet like-minded people and then your professional network also expands. It's professional network also expands. It's just funny how things can really line up just funny how things can really line up by you meeting people that are on the by you meeting people that are on the same wavelength as you. same wavelength as you. All right. I think another way to All right. I think another way to reclaim agency is by connecting with reclaim agency is by connecting with people. Um so if you can be a mentor, I people. Um so if you can be a mentor, I would do it. Okay. Choose how you want would do it. Okay. Choose how you want to show up. And then I think small acts to show up. And then I think small acts can restore purpose here. So the way you can restore purpose here. So the way you facilitate relationships at work can go facilitate relationships at work can go a really long way. So mentorship is a a really long way. So mentorship is a big one. Um but also just social events big one. Um but also just social events like hey I want to get together you know like hey I want to get together you know after hours on this day like does after hours on this day like does anybody want to join a gaming lobby or anybody want to join a gaming lobby or go for a walk or whatever. I think just go for a walk or whatever. I think just extending small invitations can really extending small invitations can really go a long way and then negotiating for go a long way and then negotiating for your values. So, your values. So, an example of this is

an example of this is if you if you really care about um let's if you if you really care about um let's say the environment and you want to say the environment and you want to bring that into the workplace, there are bring that into the workplace, there are ways you can kind of connect that, ways you can kind of connect that, right? like maybe there's a brand play, right? like maybe there's a brand play, maybe there's an employee sponsorship maybe there's an employee sponsorship program for, you know, planting trees or program for, you know, planting trees or whatever the project is where you can whatever the project is where you can kind of say like, "Hey, a couple of us kind of say like, "Hey, a couple of us really wanted to do this. Would the really wanted to do this. Would the company consider sponsoring or um company consider sponsoring or um getting involved in any way?" But ask getting involved in any way?" But ask first and ask nicely and make sure that first and ask nicely and make sure that you're always like on the side of good you're always like on the side of good morale. All right. So, choosing your morale. All right. So, choosing your next step or actually let me see. Okay. next step or actually let me see. Okay. You know what, guys? We're almost done You know what, guys? We're almost done with this um portion. So, let me wrap with this um portion. So, let me wrap this up and then I will um we'll try to this up and then I will um we'll try to get this right for next time. So, I get this right for next time. So, I noticed a lot of you guys said um you noticed a lot of you guys said um you know at the beginning I asked if you're know at the beginning I asked if you're employed, if you're starting your own

employed, if you're starting your own thing, or if you're looking for a new thing, or if you're looking for a new gig. And a couple of people were saying gig. And a couple of people were saying that they are trying to start their new that they are trying to start their new thing. Okay. So if you are trying to thing. Okay. So if you are trying to start your own thing and you think that start your own thing and you think that is going to bring you meaning and is going to bring you meaning and purpose at work, super fulfilling purpose at work, super fulfilling career, awesome. Good for you. I think career, awesome. Good for you. I think the main issue a lot of people get the main issue a lot of people get caught up in as entrepreneurs is they caught up in as entrepreneurs is they don't understand if they want to be rich don't understand if they want to be rich or if they want to be king. This is a or if they want to be king. This is a like entrepreneurship 101 kind of like entrepreneurship 101 kind of questions that people will ask startup questions that people will ask startup founders right at the beginning. They founders right at the beginning. They will say, "Do you want to be rich?" will say, "Do you want to be rich?" Like, "Are you here to build a huge Like, "Are you here to build a huge company that's going to make millions company that's going to make millions and millions of dollars or do you want and millions of dollars or do you want to be king? Do you really care about to be king? Do you really care about control? Do you really want it done your control? Do you really want it done your way? Is your autonomy and your ability way? Is your autonomy and your ability to make the decisions and call the shots to make the decisions and call the shots the most important thing?" These things the most important thing?" These things are almost always mutually exclusive, are almost always mutually exclusive, right? Like if you want to control it.

right? Like if you want to control it. Doesn't mean you can't make a good Doesn't mean you can't make a good living, but it's very unlikely that it living, but it's very unlikely that it will become a huge huge company. Some will become a huge huge company. Some do, and those are the exception. Those do, and those are the exception. Those are not the rule. Most stay as small are not the rule. Most stay as small family businesses that can generate a family businesses that can generate a great living, but they're not going to, great living, but they're not going to, you know, end up being listed on NASDAQ. you know, end up being listed on NASDAQ. So that's what we mean by do you want to So that's what we mean by do you want to be rich or do you want to be king? A lot be rich or do you want to be king? A lot of people will kind of say well both. I of people will kind of say well both. I want to call the shots and I want to want to call the shots and I want to build a huge company. build a huge company. If you want to be rich that means you If you want to be rich that means you have to be able to delegate. That means have to be able to delegate. That means you have to be able to accept other you have to be able to accept other people's ideas. That means you have to people's ideas. That means you have to be able to build something that's bigger be able to build something that's bigger than just you. If you want to be king, purpose and fulfillment tends to go more purpose and fulfillment tends to go more with folks that want to be king, right? with folks that want to be king, right? You want to live things on your terms.

You want to live things on your terms. You want to do things your way. So, it You want to do things your way. So, it just needs to be a conscious decision, just needs to be a conscious decision, right? And it will reveal your biases. right? And it will reveal your biases. Like, okay, I tend to say yes when other Like, okay, I tend to say yes when other people would say no. people would say no. To me, a good balance to this is to have To me, a good balance to this is to have a great co-founder or to have a great a great co-founder or to have a great like sidebyside person. If you're solo like sidebyside person. If you're solo projecting, that's totally fine. I would projecting, that's totally fine. I would join communities of other entrepreneurs join communities of other entrepreneurs um to like have a good sounding board in um to like have a good sounding board in the creator space. You know, we meet the creator space. You know, we meet with a lot of content creators who are with a lot of content creators who are trying to do their own thing and this is trying to do their own thing and this is a huge struggle for them like that a huge struggle for them like that everything that they've built is on everything that they've built is on their brand their way and it's really their brand their way and it's really hard for them to delegate or hard to hard for them to delegate or hard to build something where other people care build something where other people care as much about the thing as they do, as much about the thing as they do, right? right? It's it's hard for other people to care It's it's hard for other people to care about your brand as much as you do if about your brand as much as you do if all you're doing is promoting yourself,

all you're doing is promoting yourself, right, as a creator. So, that's what right, as a creator. So, that's what that can be difficult. Um, Crow, I'm that can be difficult. Um, Crow, I'm good with being rich. I'm going to good with being rich. I'm going to delegate that so hard. Eno Crow, I delegate that so hard. Eno Crow, I think you do have exceptional delegation think you do have exceptional delegation skills. I was going to do 30 minutes of Q&A. Do you guys have any questions? you guys have any questions? Okay. How to build a network. Okay. How to build a network. Essentially, you want people who like Essentially, you want people who like you, who trust you professionally, and you, who trust you professionally, and who you do not need anything from. I who you do not need anything from. I always recommend networking when you always recommend networking when you have nothing to ask. So, if you have a have nothing to ask. So, if you have a job and you're not looking for a job job and you're not looking for a job right now, now's the time to network. right now, now's the time to network. How do you balance employees incentives How do you balance employees incentives within a company? There's this whole, within a company? There's this whole, this is a good question, it's a hard this is a good question, it's a hard one. Um there's a whole discipline one. Um there's a whole discipline around employee incentives and I I'll around employee incentives and I I'll tell you some mistakes I've made. Um tell you some mistakes I've made. Um sometimes I will say, you know, like

sometimes I will say, you know, like I'll give people the best offer from the I'll give people the best offer from the beginning, but then they don't have and beginning, but then they don't have and to me I'm not playing games. I'm saying, to me I'm not playing games. I'm saying, hey, this is above market. This is hey, this is above market. This is great. Um great. Um you know, I'm going to give you the best you know, I'm going to give you the best I can do right from the beginning. And I can do right from the beginning. And then people don't have that sense of then people don't have that sense of like negotiating or advocating for like negotiating or advocating for themselves or ability to grow is what we themselves or ability to grow is what we would call a perverse incentive, right? would call a perverse incentive, right? Because it didn't do the thing that you Because it didn't do the thing that you want it to do. The thing I wanted it to want it to do. The thing I wanted it to do was say like amazing, they're not do was say like amazing, they're not screwing around with me. They're just screwing around with me. They're just giving me their best offer from the giving me their best offer from the beginning. This is awesome. But what beginning. This is awesome. But what ends up happening is people say there's ends up happening is people say there's nowhere to go. There's nowhere to grow. nowhere to go. There's nowhere to grow. I've peaked here. This is all I can do I've peaked here. This is all I can do here. And so I've learned that having here. And so I've learned that having people set their own expectations people set their own expectations helps people feel like they are getting helps people feel like they are getting more of the bonus, the raise, the more of the bonus, the raise, the promotion. It's one of those things promotion. It's one of those things where like you would think just giving where like you would think just giving maximum value right from the beginning

maximum value right from the beginning would be the right incentive, but would be the right incentive, but sometimes it's really not. And I've sometimes it's really not. And I've learned some of those lessons the hard learned some of those lessons the hard way. Um, but employee incentives to me the best the best is when all ships rise best the best is when all ships rise with the tide and when you say, "Hey, we with the tide and when you say, "Hey, we hit this goal. We all did it together. hit this goal. We all did it together. So, everybody gets the incentive." And So, everybody gets the incentive." And then you can do a little bit of waiting then you can do a little bit of waiting like, "Hey, but these people really like, "Hey, but these people really contributed a lot. So, they're going to contributed a lot. So, they're going to go in kind of that tier of incentive." go in kind of that tier of incentive." Okay, Morgan, let me try to read the Okay, Morgan, let me try to read the future. Will tech programming be a future. Will tech programming be a stable career long term? I think so. I stable career long term? I think so. I think we're going to be building more think we're going to be building more and more programmed things just what and more programmed things just what it's programmed in and like time to it's programmed in and like time to deliver deliver is probably the edge. I think we are is probably the edge. I think we are seeing essentially a deconolidation of a seeing essentially a deconolidation of a lot of big things, right? we have a new

lot of big things, right? we have a new set of ecosystems like Amazon, Amazon set of ecosystems like Amazon, Amazon merchant like you know and there's this merchant like you know and there's this whole sub economy of people who sell whole sub economy of people who sell stuff on Amazon. stuff on Amazon. So I think like picking your kind of So I think like picking your kind of niche has become easier than it ever niche has become easier than it ever has. There's not a lot of like coding or has. There's not a lot of like coding or programming that goes in it. I would say programming that goes in it. I would say it's going to become more something that it's going to become more something that everybody should be able to do for everybody should be able to do for themselves instead of and fewer jobs themselves instead of and fewer jobs that are needed by big companies to do that are needed by big companies to do for everyone. So I would encourage a lot for everyone. So I would encourage a lot of tech and programming folks to figure of tech and programming folks to figure out what their side hustle is going to out what their side hustle is going to be because then your edge is really in be because then your edge is really in working for yourself than it is for working for yourself than it is for someone else. Do you think data analytics or stats is going to move to AI? I think it is, but going to move to AI? I think it is, but I think Oh, sorry. I'm so sorry. I think I think Oh, sorry. I'm so sorry. I think um

um data and stats is kind of like data and stats is kind of like programming going to become a programming going to become a non-negotiable for everyone. Like non-negotiable for everyone. Like everyone is going to need that skill everyone is going to need that skill set. But the ability to leverage AI well is a real differentiator. real differentiator. So if you're a data analytics person So if you're a data analytics person that can use AI to make your data more that can use AI to make your data more meaningful, to make it faster, more meaningful, to make it faster, more insightful, then that is still valuable. insightful, then that is still valuable. A lot of companies right now are trying A lot of companies right now are trying to figure out how to use AI. So now is a to figure out how to use AI. So now is a great time to get in saying, "Hey, I can great time to get in saying, "Hey, I can do this function and I can look to the do this function and I can look to the future." So I can make sure that future." So I can make sure that whatever it is that we're doing can stay whatever it is that we're doing can stay modern on the edge. modern on the edge. At a job fair in my country, they're At a job fair in my country, they're usually goal driven by getting as much usually goal driven by getting as much applicants there is and picking out the applicants there is and picking out the best of the bunch. How would I proceed best of the bunch. How would I proceed to initiate networking from there? This to initiate networking from there? This is where I think volunteering and things

is where I think volunteering and things nonworky can really afford you great nonworky can really afford you great work professional relationships. So, as work professional relationships. So, as an example, I play tennis. Like, the an example, I play tennis. Like, the people I play tennis with are people I play tennis with are wildly successful people. There's also wildly successful people. There's also plenty of homemakers. There's also plenty of homemakers. There's also plenty of retired people, plenty of retired people, but I didn't go there looking for a but I didn't go there looking for a network. I went there for a hobby and I network. I went there for a hobby and I ended up with a network. So, I think if ended up with a network. So, I think if you go in to anything willing to meet you go in to anything willing to meet people, a network is just people you people, a network is just people you know who like you and trust you, that's know who like you and trust you, that's it. All right. Well, thank you guys so it. All right. Well, thank you guys so much. This was fun. Sorry about all the much. This was fun. Sorry about all the tech issues. tech issues. Yeah, the entry to networking is through Yeah, the entry to networking is through regular social norm activities. Yep, regular social norm activities. Yep, it's true. it's true. Okay, guys. Thank you so much. I had a Okay, guys. Thank you so much. I had a blast hanging out with y'all. Um, blast hanging out with y'all. Um, hopefully I get to see you guys for more hopefully I get to see you guys for more career stuff. Thanks.